Yes I have queried this in another post, My carte di identita runs out 5th July so I went in to my commune to ask and he just said come back when it expires and I will renew it, no mention of checking my bank statement or needing health insurance, anyway all will be revealed next week-I will get back to you and let you know what happens!

Penny , thanks for all the research and hard work you are putting into this. I wonder if we might be able to hold all the information/threads under one banner or even make it a sticky?

A

The problem is qui gia', your carta d'identita is nothing to do with either your permission to stay in Italy nor your right to healthcare. You still need to ask for an "attestazione di soggiorno permanente" and then take that to the ASUR or your health cover will be cancelled as it expires with your permesso.

Shall I count you as 1 or 2 on the list?

A&R - I don't think we can have stickies on this new site. I am trying to keep it all under the Health section except this particular post is quite specific to Marche as other Regions seem to not be causing people a problem. Any suggestions for making it tidier are definitely gratefully received. Do you think it merits a separate group?

But the permesso sigiorno has been abolished, we no longer need  to renew them when they expire, we only need the identity card.

Hi Penny, I think it merits a group, something like Marche health care, we have enough members here from Marche to make it viable I think.

A

qui-gia' I am afraid that is not correct. The Permesso di Soggiorno has been abolished but when it expires, so does your libretto sanitaria and therefore your entitlement to healthcover. The permesso has been replaced by a straightforward residency document (so it hasn't completely disappeared, just morphed into something else).

As ever in Italy, thing sare not as straightforward as they seem and the anagrafe offices seem to know very little. It has taken 2 months for ours to get around to reading the laws and circulars and agree I am right.

It is vitally important that you go to the comune to get the "Attestazione di soggiorno permanente". If you don't, then your registration with the SSN will be cancelled after 30 days and they will not accept a Cart d'Identita to reinstate it. Your comune is probably under the belief that beacuse you are resident, when your permesso runs out you will still be resident and so don't need to do anything. In one respect this is true but the sticking point is the healthcover which must be renewed within 30 days of expiry or by taking the "Attestazione di soggiorno permanente" to the ASUR office.

A friend of mine believed the same as you and did nothing when his permesso ran out. The comune (admittedly not known for it's helpfulness) cancelled his residency and he had to start from the beginning as if he had just arrived in Italy and reapply for residency. They would not budge. Ridiculous but true and how do you fight it?

A&R - will do as you suggest

We really need to get hold of this one, because there are a LOT of people here who MAY become impacted, Doing a FANTASTIC job Penny............ well done you!

I'm a few years away from your position and your efforts are very much appreciated...........

S

 "The permesso has been replaced by a straightforward residency document (so it hasn't completely disappeared, just morphed into something else). "

 True.  To avoid confusion rather than calling it permesso maybe we should call it residency.

EEK Penny I have created the group, Health Care in Marche, its the least I could do after all your hard work!, hope we now dont have 2.

A

Hi Penny we come under Macerata, we got our residency in November 2007, took certificate to ASR in Sarnarno and were issued with our tessera sanitaria. On Simon's it reads scad. illimitata  but nothing on mine. Simon is a diabetic so this maybe why it looks like he can access healthcare whatever?  But our ID cards say they are valid until 2018. Our residency certificate we think was issued for 5 years, but the ASR has it. I get very confused by all this, as I'm sure many do. Simon has had no problems accessing healthcare, luckily I have not had to but was called for screening test this year...

Not sure if this helps or confuses things...

Jo

Thanks for the info Jo. When you mention the tessera sanitaria, are you talking about the blue plastic card? If so, this is slightly different.

In our ASUR, they give you a white slip of paper called a libretto sanitaria (as well as getting the blue plastic tessera sanitaria). Did you get one of these? If you did, what is the expiry date?

Thanks in advance for the info!

Don't you have Italian citizenship through marriage prior to 1983?  If so, you shouldn't need  a Certificate for Permanent Residency.  You just need to have your Italian citizenship recognized.

 In the past, you used to loose your UK and other nationalities if you opted for another citizenship through marriage. Nowadays, things have changed and most countries accept dual nationality. I don't know whether this would be of any benefit to you Carole, but it may be worthwhille investigating.

As for the cases from other members, I think that in most cases they were under retirement age (65) and not related to an Italian national. This is where those changes introduced in 2007 are a pain to sort out. Also, I looked a bit the information available and it looks as if there are about 10,000 laws, decrees, instructions, with variations for each "Comune" to interpret and this has created a real maze of bureaucracy to sort out.

Hi Penny, we haven't got a blue plastic card, its made out of paper card and  mine doesn't have a scadenza on it. It's light blue and says TESSERA SANITARIA on the front. Simon's was reissued (again a paper card one) once he'd seen the diabetician at Tolentino and now his says that its unlimited and I'm presuming this is because of his diabetes as in Europe this health problem is treated to an international standard (well sort of...). We were expecting to receive plastic cards, but 18 months later still not.

Hope this is helpful

Jo

Yes, understand the historical aspect, but for the last 17 years Italy has allowed dual citizenship.  That's why I don't understand why one now (not decades ago) wouldn't just have their Italian citizenship through marriage recognized?  Seems much simpler.  As you mentioned on the old forum, you already have Italian citizenship (just not officially recognized):

"I was married in 1966 and I automatically became an Italian Citizen as the wife of an Italian. I was entitled to an Italian Passport which I declined and I retained my British nationality and passport - thus I had dual nationality. "

Or is the tax advantage so great it outweighs the added bureaucracy?

According to the Anagrafe in Sarnano, the identity card has no validity at all for non italians. 100% meaningless document. I was told that as a UK citizen, I must hold an up to date passport in order to be here legally. The Residency foolscap is also only of use  for the banks, Enel, gas company. I had an interesting discussion with the nice lady re identity cards. She told me that my UK identity card is valid. ??? She insisted that such a document exists! All NORMAL english produce it on demand when applying for residency!

I am not sure why this subject was started but here is my experience.  My permesso ran out last year along with my registration for my GP and my UK passport.  A big problem as I was in hopital here in italy at the time.  Anyway A friend of mine did some checking, as normally you have to go to the local Questura to renew any documentation,  but remeber this is Italy and no, we were told to go to my local comune, which I did.  The young lady was extremely helpful and issued my new permesso immediatley at no cost, and it is now of permanent status. 

My registration with the GP was not so straightforward as my local office would only issue it for one year.  on the expiery of this I then went to the main office where I explained the situation and advised them that I did not have proof of pension from the Uk.  I was told it was not a problem that I was now a permanent resident and the registration for the GP would be for 5 years. 

I have to renew it then as I will be 65yrs and entitled to the same service as Italina pensioners, ( all female Italians are over 65 for this service).  I am not sure why everyone is talking about privat insurance cover, I have not found this necessary.  While I was in hospital last year (for 7 Months) I did not have to pay anything and when attending outpatients now I only pay what they call the ticket charge, this  is normal here in Italy and everyone pays it unless they have retired.  You also have to pay for some tests and x rays depending on what they are for.  I have to say I cannot fault the health service here, give me Italy every time.

Just a quick one for those who have not had their plastic  'tessera'  blue cards, you can apply for these on line to your local office, mine arrived in about 10days.

Hope this is of some help

Hi Pauline - this thread started as some of us are being denied inscription to the health service or only being granted 12 months despite us being permanent residents too.

Are you in Marche and if so which comune and ASUR area please? It is very useful for my ongoing fight to know this.

Thanks

Hello Penny

I realise that  this post is about healthcare in Marche but I have a similar problem living in Lunigiana.

I am not yet pensionable age which may be relevant. I have been resident here for 6 years and last year aquired my permanent residency certificate. I have a blue plastic carta sanitaria which expires in 2013.

The small paper card, which I was given when I registered with my doctor, expired in October last year and I was taken off the computer.

 I went  along to renew it with my residency certificate and they said that I needed a copy of my income tax return in order to be re registered with my doctor. I took a copy and everything was fine.

Yesterday I received a letter saying that whatever I produced wasn't sufficient (this was October it is of course now  10 months later) and I need to go down and see them to find out what else they need.

I am interested in the legal position can you tell me where I could find the relevant documentation for this that you referered to at the beginning of this post

Thank you in advance for your help

Charlotte

This is such a nightmare isn't it?

Have a look at this post: http://www.italymag.co.uk/community/post/circulars-and-decrees-demonstra...

You might need to join the Marche Healthcare group but that is eay - it's an open group.

Hi Pauline R.........

My personal big issue is what does "everyone pays it unless they have................... retired" mean ?

Is this OLD AGE retirement (65 and over) or early retired (60+ like me)?

I read somewhere (I think it was on the rubbish tax form) that both parties in the household had to be 65 (or older ) for 'discount'.

If you were less than 65years old, AND if you had an income of less than 12,000 euros, this was another 'case for non payment of the full ticket'.

What defines 'an income'?......................I live mainly on savings..............is this considered income? Is a UK (taxed there) pension (and small) considered income ?

VERY very difficult area.................I think a lot of it is an interpretation by the local Comune...............I went to a commercialista and he told me very clearly EXACTLY what I already knew (as above) and charged me 100euros for the privilege!!! (He said it was 'very complex' you know!!!..............................stung again !)

Penny is doing a FANTASTIC job (in my view one of the best things I have followed on this Forum)........well done!!

European Union eh ???!!!