Self Employment

[WelshLibrarian]

Hi,

Don't know if this is the right place for this as it's not strictly speaking about looking for employment but an issue that has arisen re. self-employment.

My wife and I are looking into the possibility of setting up in business running a Coffee/Sandwich Bar. We're having some difficulty with getting the right info and we're hoping that someone here can help us out.

If we have understood correctly, it seems that - quite apart from the 'normal' bureacratic hoops that one has to go through - it is also necessary to have some kind of catering qualification in order to be granted a licence from the local authority to run this kind of business. One commercialista we spoke to even thought that I'd have to have a full blown Hotel Management Diploma - the kind that takes 4 - 5 years in the UK - which I though was a daft idea.

I have to admit that - being accustomed to the UK situation in which there are virtually no restrictions - I was a bit taken aback at the necessity for any kind of qualification for running this kind of business, with the possible exception of a mid-level Food Safety Certificate, which I already have. After all, it's my Bar and if it goes bust through my own incompetence, that is surely my affair, - as long as I don't poison anyone in the process.

Anyway, that's the issue I'm hoping someone will be able to help me out with. Thanks in advance.

Cheers,

Geraint

[Sally Donaldson]

"- as long as I don't poison anyone in the process."

That may be the rub. The need to have some kind of hygiene qualification which you can only do within a full catering one perhaps. I'm intrigued by what members here will come up with.

[Gala Placidia]

I did a bit of a search on the subject through google.it and I found this, which relates to Torino, but possibly it is the same type of requisites everywhere:

Come avviare un Bar

Go on searching through google.it using the words "Licenza bar" and you may find useful information.
Is this your only alternative? What about other activities which you could also envisage?Without wanting to discourage you, as you may have some innovative ideas and it may be a successful venture, there are plenty of bars, coffee shops, trattorias in Italy. Perhaps you are overlooking other possibilities which could also work very well for you.
Best wishes with your plans,

[Sally Donaldson]

Gala in a nutshell do you have to have a catering qualification??? My Italian is so limited.

As for the idea. Well people always want to eat and drink. Maybe a shortage or non existent, I know (unlikely) in one particular spot will help him to decide where to move to???

[Gala Placidia]

Yes, you need formal qualifications or to sit for an examination conducted by the Chamber of Commerce, but you need to fulfill some requisites concerning studies and experience as well. The information is a bit vague and they advise to contact the local Chamber of Commerce for further details.
I also agree that people always want to eat and drink, but I do not think that there is a shortage of establishments and where they do not exist is simply because there is not enough business. Some bars and restaurants only open during the summer months.
Without wanting to be negative, as there are always people with great ideas that succeed, I would be very careful and look at other possibilities as well. All this will require careful planning and to get a good knowledge of the area where you want to develop your activity. A real business plan and feasibility study.

[Sally Donaldson]

You can always compete with slightly lower prices or offer some different/unique service to single out "your" bar.

Yes study is a pain at a later age, (well at any age. lol) and I wonder what businesses then in Italy can be set up without formal qualifications.

[WelshLibrarian]

Hi Sally & Gala,

Thanks for the suggestions, - I'll get moving on Google asap.

What's irritating me about the situation is that Adriana and I already have recognised Food Hygiene certificates. We both have the Elementary Food Hygiene Certificate and I have the Intermediate Food Hygiene Certificate - which is meant for those who aspire to Manager/Owners of bars and restaurants. Both of these were done through the Royal Environmental Health Institute of Scotland (REHIS) and are, according to REHIS, recognised not only by the UK government as the bench mark standard, but also recognised by the EU, which presumably means that they are recognised in Italy.

I ran this situation by my brother, who is a qualified chef and he had a good laugh about it. He reckons that my Intermediate Cert., is at least as good as that part of his course syllabus that covered food hygiene. He also pointed out that operating a commercial espresso coffee machine, making a few sub sandwiches and serving chilled desserts and ice cream is not exactly rocket science and shouldn't need a catering qualification.

We have looked at a couple of other options. Adriana is a qualified Nursery Nurse, so we looked at starting a Day Nursery. But there was a major problem. The fees for nursery care are so low in Italy that we couldn't see how we could make a decent profit. In fact, given that the staff/child ratios and the space requirements are more or less the same in Italy as they are in the UK, I don't really see that it would be possible to make any profit at all unless one was prepared to break the law and either ignore these requirements or employ people 'on the black' at well below minimum wage and without paying social security contributions - or both. And frankly speaking I don't fancy doing time in an Italian jail.

I also looked at the possibility of an English Language School. But the same problem seems to raise its head here. Lesson fees are so low that you'd need a vast number of pupils to make it even marginally profitable.

So I'm out of ideas at the moment, which is why I'm persevering with the coffee bar project. I know that there are a lot of coffee bars in Italy, but I've never seen an empty one, - or at least not in those places which combine tourism with a large permanent population.

Having said that I'm always open to ideas............

Cheers,

Geraint

[WelshLibrarian]

Originally Posted by Sally Donaldson

............. and I wonder what businesses then in Italy can be set up without formal qualifications.

Yes, - I'm getting to the point of asking our commercialista that question!!!

Cheers,

Geraint

[Gala Placidia]

Well, you both have Food Hygiene Certificates and there should be a recognition of those in place. At least, you would both qualify to sit for the exams, at least that's what I think.
Get in touch with the relevant Chamber of Commerce and get their opinion.
And keep all your options open.
Best wishes,

[Sally Donaldson]

The other possibilty is that there are many businesses for sale and these can be found online. Also consider an online business??? Delivering sandwiches, drinks in a fair sized town/city??? Having suggested the last, whether that would work given the culture. Having a B+B??? Offering activity breaks/tours???