Work Permits For Carers

[Gala Placidia]

It looks as if it is increasingly difficult to get those permits and this creates a real problem for Italian families who need to look after elderly or infirm relatives. With tougher laws we can only wonder whether it is reasonable to create more problems to the families who need help.

Notizie di cronaca del Corriere della Sera

I know of a few Romanian women in Bagni di Lucca who look after elderly Italians. I do not know whether they have all the right permits in place, but their work is very important to ensure that these people are properly looked after.

All this bureaucracy seem to forget the real needs of an ageing society.

[Sally Donaldson]

The Italians are so caring that if they cannot find a Romanian to look after their parent/whoever they I'm sure will look after them themselves.

It will perhaps too create vacancies for Italians so not a bad move I feel. There again maybe it's like sweeping the streets here where mainly ethnic/non British, people are employed. It's not their "scene" to be employed in such a capacity perhaps..

[Gala Placidia]

I am concerned as many elderly people, particularly in smaller towns are a bit lonely. Their families have left to work in larger cities and they are currently employing Eastern Europeans to look after the elderly. The same thing is happening in other countries, such as Spain.
Younger people have big mortgages to repay, work commitments, problems looking after their own children, the employment of Eastern Europeans seemed to be a solution. The same thing is happening in Spain. A couple of generations back, families looked after their elderly people. Nowadays, they employ Latin American immigrants to look after them. They have the advantage of speaking the same language and have similar roots and cultures.
I think that the Italian government should have a closer look at the situation, because the ones who are going to suffer are those who need help.

[Sally Donaldson]

I take your points Gala, but old folk in villages I question whether they are lonely. They seem to while away the day sitting in the sunshine throughout a good several months chatting to neighbours who can speak their language/dialect and have much in common.

I wonder what numbers of Romanian Carers we are talking about.

Going back o what you said, in fact my Italian friend, the lawyer, a few years ago, took in his very seriously father who was seriously ill rather than let him stay in the family home with his brother and family who needed the space. At the time he was commuting to and from Rome and had no other option than to employ someone who turned out to be ..... a Romanian. lady.

[Gala Placidia]

Yes, these women are currently being employed to look after elderly folks and young children. They say that they are excellent carers. It would be great if the Italian bureaucracy would help them in order to get all the necessary permits.

[Nardini]

Originally Posted by Sally Donaldson

I take your points Gala, but old folk in villages I question whether they are lonely. They seem to while away the day sitting in the sunshine throughout a good several months chatting to neighbours who can speak their language/dialect and have much in common.

I wonder what numbers of Romanian Carers we are talking about.

Going back o what you said, in fact my Italian friend, the lawyer, a few years ago, took in his very seriously father who was seriously ill rather than let him stay in the family home with his brother and family who needed the space. At the time he was commuting to and from Rome and had no other option than to employ someone who turned out to be ..... a Romanian. lady.

Sorry, I just need to batter away the bluebirds and butterflies for a moment here, Sally.

The realities of "real" life in Italy are a little more complex than just "true love". With the birth rate being as low as it is - and having been so for many years now - there are a very large number of elderly people that have no family to look after them at all. This situation is further compounded by the kind of mass emigration that Italy has seen during the past hundred years, or so.

The fact that old, wrinkled people, sitting out in the sun on a fine summers day can look very ... well, decorative, shall we say, says nothing for the personal situation that an old person can be experiencing. It is not all about a pretty view at all - there are real human issues involved here. For a great many people - a growing number, in fact - a badante is the only human contact that they can hope to experience on a day by day basis. Shopping is another problem for many people, especially with the slow decline in rural services. Yes, it's fine if you are wealthy and can afford to pay people to do such things - but if you are not wealthy - normal, in other words - you have a problem.

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gobble the bobble.

[Gala Placidia]

I agree with you, Nardini, families are living differently nowadays and many of them move to larger cities because of their work, leaving behind the elderly. These are the people who are currently paying these ladies to look after nonnas, nonnos, etc. They can't do their shopping by themselves or look after their houses and I do not think that they would be happy moving to a small appartment in a large city.

[alan h]

Originally Posted by Nardini

..........With the birth rate being as low as it is - and having been so for many years now - there are a very large number of elderly people that have no family to look after them at all. .....................

Seems like they need to face up to the reality of their earlier actions.

Yes I know that sound harsh - but that's life.

What is important is that we all start planning for our old age - I certainly don't want my kids to be 'lumbered' [another emotive word] with me.

Hopefully I've got things sorted so they won't feel they need to look after me - because I don't fell they have any obligation to do so

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Anyway, I'll be OK - I heard my kids say they would look after me in my dotage [no it isn't here yet!] - [they said they'll find a nice cheap home to put me in]

[Nardini]

Originally Posted by alan h

Seems like they need to face up to the reality of their earlier actions....Anyway, I'll be OK

So, Alan. You are saying that because they didn't breed like rabbits when they were young, or because they didn't (or more likely couldn't afford to) buy additional insurance (I can't see how that would work, by the way), or were just "unlucky" enough to be born into a poor Italian family, they should now just suck on the lemon and accept their rather sad fate?

Or are you saying something else that I haven't quite grasped? Enlighten me a little here, Alan.

PS. I'm glad to hear that you are "OK, Jack". No, really I am...

[Angie and Robert]

This thread has raised interesting issues, for those living and intending to die here, what are the provisions going to be when you are too old/ill/demented to look after yourself?.I know it is an issue for Italian families too, we have a friend an only child who looks after his increasingly dememted mother, but he also has to work, the day facility she used to go to is closed, and there is no other provision than to rely on neighbours and if push comes to shove try to buy in help.
I am not aware of what happens to the elderly if there is no family help, does anyone else know?, perhaps the church provides care?.
Also there are other families I know who look after relatives within the home despite their own failing health, and there seems no respite care provided, and little state money to buy that in, also the test for who requires help is rigerous and I understand it is helpul to be "in the know" to achieve it.
Seems a sorry state of circumstances for all concerned.
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