Minimum wage

[rapide561]

Hi

The minimum wage in the UK is £5.73 per hour, Is there a minimum wage in Italy?

Thanks

Russell

[Sally Donaldson]

I see from EMIRE: ITALY - MINIMUM WAGE there isn't a minimum wage set in Italy,

[Carole B]

That is quite right - to date there is no minimum wage legislation set in Italy. I'm not sure how much longer they can get away with it though...

>This< was published just a week before the elections last April and speaks of a 'possible' €1100 pm minimum BEFORE stoppages for tax, SSN etc...

You note that I only said it 'speaks' of such things. The average Italian and trade union would love such legislation, but alas the back street employers (not the CONFINDUSTRIA - though they're not totally adverse to keeping wages low either!) are another matter alltogether! They will continue to pay the lowest possible wages, and where possible 'in nero', for as long as they can get away with it. I know of young people who are paid €10 for an 8 hour day (€0.80c - £0.76 per hour) for assmbling electronic components in a small facrory outside Milano. They have NO rights, and work is on an 'as and when' basis! So they're always on a hiding to nothing while their employers laugh all the way to the bank!

[Noble]

If we start to explore what Italians are paid, I think we will be touching upon the Thread "What I hate about Italy". It is often shaming.

[Sally Donaldson]

I wonder if there should then also be a thread entitled "What We Like About The UK"

[sueflauto]

That's interesting and appalling Carole. Do you think 'name and shame' would work? If you know about the situation why aren't the unions doing something about it, or even the Guardia di Finanza? €10 probably wouldn't cover costs of getting to work, lunch, work clothes etc!

[Carole B]

Originally Posted by sueflauto

That's interesting and appalling Carole. Do you think 'name and shame' would work? If you know about the situation why aren't the unions doing something about it, or even the Guardia di Finanza? €10 probably wouldn't cover costs of getting to work, lunch, work clothes etc!

Basically - as I understand it - those who are offered work on a daily basis have been 'warned' that if any 'authorities' are told about the situation then 'they' will just up sticks and move somewhere else overnight. The two young people that I know (personally) are both Italians and desperately need even €10 per day to help thier family finances. Neither are really well educated - no diplomas or suchlike. They live in two different, very small villages about 11km from Milano. This capanone (shed) where the work is done is in the countryside within easy walking distance for them. I am certain that desperation and hunger drives them to keep thier mouths shut. €10 is better than €0... their words....

Of course I found it very hard not to sound off about the illegalities of the way they were being treated - but I had to honour their pleas to just 'keep out of it'! But having said that - don't think it doesn't break my heart to know that such situations are just the tip of the iceberg here....

[adriatica]

the unions to some degree are positively involved in the low wage area... as they run closed shops with quite large contributions required from employees into their coffers and no person allowed to get a job without union membership... there will be laws that say this isn't so... but in general its the way it happens...

also the COOP system here is very abused ... noticed another thread about this... and didn't want to comment because it was basically about shopping... hoverer COOPS here are used as a way of setting up an employment agency... good examples are to be found in the health system...where say ancillary staff are now employed under private contracts... these are generally handed out to COOPs ... who under the pretense of using their coop members as workers pay exceedingly low wages... and bag the difference between what they charge and what the workers get as tax free income.. COOPs are used everywhere in Italy and what should have been a good system of workers being part of something ... however this corrupted version is basically a way of introducing virtual slave labour and as carol clearly points out dangerous to go up against...both in a physical sense and any prospect of work at whatever level.... and is carried out in full view of the police in any case as where the crew buses stop to do pick ups is well known in any town to city here and when permission controls are called for because of some violent incident here... they just have to wait in those places the next morning or evening to pick up a few workers without permits...

very much accepted here is the fact that people do at least 2 if not 3 jobs to make ends meet and this extends into areas where elsewhere in the world it might not be thought necessary...i have seen working doctors interviewed who also do shifts in bars to try and make ends meet...

now the thing is that from the above one might consider that most Italians will not survive the month... and officially this is so... however because of the restricted wages, the restrictions on progressive employment or running any business most of Italy runs at two levels ... looking after supposedly disabled relatives is a very big earner... and i have seen a family where we lived at one stage maintain a very high standard of living with one single male wage earner...doing a pretty low paid work ... and never at work weekends ... or evenings.. unlike most families we know... all based on two elderly parents from one generation, a widowed parent disabled but not really, and an unemployed parent, disabled too... their main activity was the weekly doctors visit to pick up scripts and sign continuing paperwork for claims... in between a very active life in the orto which would have put many younger people to shame... and which neighbour although maybe not as well set up with relatives could denounce them when they are all at it in any case....to some degree or another... the only ones that do get denounced are foreigners... cause they do not know enough to be a threat in the contra - denouncing wars that sometimes take place in these small villages..

this system is also used in people registering as farmers and grants..... and so on and so forth.. and what you find then in a large number of cases is that people lead lives here way beyond incomes... and expecting the finance police to do anything would be to find that virtually the whole of italy and its population would be behind bars... also you have to take that joining any of the police forces is regarded here as the elite of all occupations... not carbineri.... however to get this occupation you pass an exam...which many take and pass ...however to get into the school/university this doesnt count at all... its a question of recommendation... this can take the form of just being in the right family or say building someone a new house for not a lot... so why on earth would these guardians of the finance want to upset a system that basically they got their jobs through...

a nightmare... and one which never really gets solved here... and the worse off just keep getting worse off...... unless of course they leave .. but even that has gotten harder to do...

[Noble]

This subject breaks my heart. I see so many young educated Italians working for next to nothing and they have no hope of ever finding a permanent job. My cousin's daughter is a psychologist in Le Marche. There has never been an opening that she could apply for and so she is part of a Co op working with immigrants and her local community's mentally ill. Pay 10 euros an hour. If she had a permanent position it would be at least 3 times this amount. It is much cheaper for the healthservice to use a Co op. Few young Italians are prepared to leave Italy and their families, so are therefore, prepared to put up with things as they are.

[bosco]

Fascinating thread. Thanks to all who have contributed.

A related issue that I've frequently thought about is precisely how much many shopkeepers and their families make from their family businesses. One of the great joys of Italy is that small villages have a number and a variety of shops which is now unimaginable in rural Britain. But when I try to guess their profits (using an estimation of turnover and the prices in the local cash-and-carries), I come up with figures which would be utterly unacceptable to most people in the UK, particularly when several family members are often involved and sharing the income from the business.

Which troubles me even further on the frequent occasions when I don't patronise the local shops and use much cheaper supermarkets instead!