A stick not required

[pilchard]

Donning wellies and a mac decided to go on the hill to look at our winter garden. Growing nicely are, cavalo nero (good for the old Tuscan ribolita), rape,carrots,beetroot,spinach,and several varieties of cabbages,sumptious broccoli, fantastic fennel and so on. Can't believe we can grow so much in the winter months! In the U.K my garden turned to a barren mound I used to poke with a stick. But here...Our neighbours of course have bigger, greener veg but seem to never eat any of it. I asked if they ate much veg, "No, we don't like veg" (?!) Why do they grow it? Abitudine?
I miss being on the hill, miss the caravan, and miss the views.We can't wait to get back there in Spring and start assembling (by numbers) our shed. I think some people we have met think the joy we show at living in the caravan and working the land and living on such a miniscule budget puts us in the "Crazy People" bracket and our exuberance to get our hands dirty not a joy but something they would avoid like the plague. We love it...
Must go as can hear Pilch rattling his tape measure, a sure sign that there's another project in the offing.
P.S just found out what the rattling tape measure is about planning out the shed floorplan. You know, "imagine where the bed is well thats the kitchen and where we have the toilet thats where the bed will be", ete,etc

[joannaH]

Pilchard, I too am an avid veg grower in the UK but unlike you we are going to spend our winters in Italy and the summers here.I'm wondering what I can grow food wise in the winter. We have lemons, oranges so no frost. We would be there from late september to end of March. What would be ready to pick before we leave? Could I conceivably take any brassica plants with me? Leek plants. Globe artichokes? Asparagus? Winter salads maybe? We have a big van. I'll have spuds and onions from here but havent yet figured out how to transport the raspberries. Have to start bottling again I suppose. Love to hear from you. Also can you recommend an Italian gardening magazine. I need to be able to garden in Italian.
Happy growing
Joanna

[elliven]

You will find Italian garden magazines a bit different from UK ones , sometimes they can be boringly basic but there are detailed articles about plants you just would not grow in Blighty and there is frequently arcane advice as to what phase of the moon is most propitious for planting what plant. As to what to grow - fruit trees and bushes are brilliant - good yields, high sugar levels - only downside drought can be a problem in some summers. A quality magazine is GARDENIA available at most newsagent stalls.

[English teacher]

Don't knock the lunar gardening! Everyone round here is convinced that it's necessary, and it also forces you into rest when the luna is cattiva...

As for Joanna's question: I planted broccoli and cauli in autumn and the broccoli should be ready in the next few weeks. Not sure what happened to the cauli - lots of leaves but no veg.

The peas and fava beans might also be ready by then (I planted from seed in September) though this is probably wishful thinking. Your leeks should be good, and garlic / shallots too.

My raspberry seems to have died - planted out in Sept. Any clues as to why? It's the first year I've tried it here.

Have fun - and buy yourself a lunar gardening calendar!

[anne2]

Originally Posted by joannaH

Also can you recommend an Italian gardening magazine. I need to be able to garden in Italian.
Happy growing
Joanna

Have a look at 'Case in Fiore' readily available from an edicola. Despite the title it does cover vegetables and also regional differences. We have found the articles covering traditional Italian type veg very useful - not many English mags cover cardo, carciofi, olives etc and also the tips re growing veg in an Italian climate. There are also the inevitable lunare pages!

[Carole B]

This is the one I use... >GIARDINAGGIO<
but all in Italian. It is excellent in all areas - fruit, veg, flowers, bugs, house plants - you name it...

[pilchard]

Never expected to get such a crop of interesting responses from which was really only 10 mins of whimsy.
Don't bother asking me for any advice, as there seems to be here people with a far greater knowledge than me. Maybe we could turn this thread into an IT Mag gardener’s question time.
Why bring English seed or plants over when there's bound to be good quality seed readily available here? And by the way it costs next to nothing for really BIG packets of seeds. We have a weekly market in our village, and there will also be one near you, where all the locals go to buy their young plants and seedlings through the various seasons. Not expensive. We use what they have available as a guide to what to plant at different times.
Can understand bringing over favourite varieties or things you can't find here. Would love to be able to grow some scotch kale, the tall tender tight curled variety. We bought some young plants from a nursery near Port Appin near west coast of Scotland and planted them in Yorkshire where they grew to 5ft giants with the most delicious, tender leaves that cropped for months, suspect they would be a waste of time here but would love to give it a go. Remember you need seeds and plants with a degree of drought tolerance, not a thing we have to worry about in the U.K. We know of people who brought out gooseberry bushes and apple trees and they all died. Possibly lack of nurture.
Right here is a list of stuff we put in Sept/October... sprouts, cabbages (these were) Cavalo Nero, red cabbage, Savoy, broccoletti (yum), chicory, fennel, broccoli, leeks, beetroot, carrots, mixed winter salads (yum), bietola, garlic and onions gone in a month ago, celery.... I also am growing coriander over winters nicely. Our veg patch is on a fairly exposed hill and we do get a bit of wind. Our stuff is not all growing as well as we would like, due to us putting nothing on the soil...still growing though. Our mate Domenico who keeps cattle will bring up a trailer load of muck for us when the weather breaks (can't wait).
It's our very first year here and I have been very happy with the yields considering the land is fairly exhausted from constant intensive ploughing and cereal cropping...but last summer had to bottle and pickle loads of stuff (didn’t have a freezer) as we had no electric then on our hill. We do now and this summer I will freeze loads.
Hope this is helpful...but repeat am no Percy Thrower! Just a Sprat in wellies.
Sprat

[AllanMason]

Originally Posted by pilchard

We know of people who brought out gooseberry bushes and apple trees and they all died. Possibly lack of nurture.

I suspect so.

There are several apple trees that must be more than 50 years old at my place (550m slm), so it's clearly not impossible to grow them here. However, I'm sure you can't get away with what you're able to do in most parts of the UK: plonk the tree in a hole and let it get on with it. I'm certain that new trees - particularly bare rooted ones - are going to need regular watering during the Italian summer until they get their roots down into the levels of clay that retain moisture.

At least I hope this is how it works, given that we've just planted a total of 45 trees bought from UK nurseries! And, yes, we did have a good look at what was available locally, but I'm afraid that while we like Granny Smith, Fuji and (at a push) Golden Delicious apples, there are much more interesting varieties available.

And of course most Italians have no idea what cider is, nevermind knowing that there are certain varieties of apples which one should use in making it!

I did find it interesting how little information is supplied on tree labels here. In Britain, it's standard practice for fruit tree nurseries to offer apple varieties on a range of rootstocks and to explain what effect that will have on qualities like ultimate size, speed of cropping, resistance to drought, and so on. Here, the label states the variety and that's it. The trees are clearly grafted onto rootstocks, but there's no indication of what it might be.

But perhaps there are serious fruit tree nurseries around and we just haven't managed to find them.

Al

[Angie and Robert]

Percy Thrower!, thats a name from the past. He used to be a friend of my Aunt Mary, and gave her lots of vegetables, well thats how she told it. As a child I used to watch his programmes on TV (in black and white) and for some strange reason found them fascinating, must have been an odd child.
A

[pilchard]

Originally Posted by AllanMason

I suspect so.

There are several apple trees that must be more than 50 years old at my place (550m slm), so it's clearly not impossible to grow them here. However, I'm sure you can't get away with what you're able to do in most parts of the UK: plonk the tree in a hole and let it get on with it. I'm certain that new trees - particularly bare rooted ones - are going to need regular watering during the Italian summer until they get their roots down into the levels of clay that retain moisture.

At least I hope this is how it works, given that we've just planted a total of 45 trees bought from UK nurseries! And, yes, we did have a good look at what was available locally, but I'm afraid that while we like Granny Smith, Fuji and (at a push) Golden Delicious apples, there are much more interesting varieties available.

And of course most Italians have no idea what cider is, nevermind knowing that there are certain varieties of apples which one should use in making it!

I did find it interesting how little information is supplied on tree labels here. In Britain, it's standard practice for fruit tree nurseries to offer apple varieties on a range of rootstocks and to explain what effect that will have on qualities like ultimate size, speed of cropping, resistance to drought, and so on. Here, the label states the variety and that's it. The trees are clearly grafted onto rootstocks, but there's no indication of what it might be.

But perhaps there are serious fruit tree nurseries around and we just haven't managed to find them.

Al

Alan, you have instantly become my fruit tree expert! What trees did you plant? Any really classic English varieties, Pilchards penchant is for a nice, floral flavoured Russet, myself I'm a lover of cox's orange pippin, but I just Lerrrve Damsons and Victoria plums, of course I go into raptures over gooseburies and Rhubarb, (being a northern lass) Oh god don't get me started.....Things I miss about the U.K is our fruits and Cheeses....
Just come back from a nearby market where the garlic and onion plants were winking at me..so we bought some and there going in after lunch.
Pilchard now sprawled on bed looking through all our gardening books and glazing over at the prospects of veg to come..
Al, How did you get all those fruit trees here from the U.K?
WARNING Please, please do not go off thread into things you miss from the U.K...This is too much of an interesting thread...Start yer own...
Sprat