Briton imports Road Rage!

[AllanMason]

Originally Posted by Aretina

They are fast, but I think much more skilled than drivers from the UK.

I don't know what you consider "skilled" driving, but I've seen a lot of very stupid behaviour by drivers in Italy. The most obvous fault is that far too many drive far too fast for the conditions. As has been pointed out here, the road fatality statistics for Italy are pretty bad. Various interpretations can be put on those numbers, but suggesting they prove how wonderful Italian drivers are is a real stretch.

Anyone who thinks Italian drivers are skilled should make a trip north and spend a day driving on German autobahns. The difference is amazing.

Originally Posted by Aretina

They have an annoying habit of driving far too close to the back of your car yet I have not seen an accident here in 5 years.

One of the first changes I made to my driving habits is to start ignoring a lot of what's going on in my rear view mirror. I'm certainly not saying that I don't check before pulling out to overtake, but I've decided there's no point worrying about the idiot 30cm from my back bumper in town or the prat flashing his lights at me from a kilometer back on the Autostrada when I pull out to overtake a lorry doing 30kph.

If you've really not seen an accident during your five years in Italy, you've either been very lucky or you don't get out much. On one memorable trip from the Swiss-Italian border to Abruzzo alone, I saw two multiple car collisions and one collision of car with guardrail. Roadside floral tributes are not rare in Italy.

Originally Posted by Nielo

...the one habit, which always makes me cringe is the child standing in the passenger well or sitting on the passengers lap or even sitting on the drivers lap. The Italians are very protective of their children so I don't understand why they don't worry about launching them like missiles through the windscreen in even a minor shunt.

I think there are various factors at work here:

First, Italians do believe that they are very skillful drivers. They therefore believe they will not be involved in a collision which will launch little Tito through the windscreen.

Second, many people have no feeling for basic physics or the forces involved when two cars collide; they don't understand that it is all but inevitable that Tito will fly through windscreen if another idiot suddenly drives out of a side street and the car driven by Tito's loving papa goes from 50kph to 0kph in a fraction of a second.

The third factor is the prevalent belief here that it's God's will if something bad happens. That easily leads to an attitude that there's no point being concerned about safety (whether on a building site or in a car). Indeed, trying to prevent accidents and being concerned about the safety of our children verges on the sacrilegious if you believe that God is looking after them.

Al

[Aretina]

Hi Al

I certainly get out but dont spend my days patrolling the autostrade. I guess up to now I have been lucky, But, I do agree about Italians fatalistic approach - that God and the V. Mary will protect them. I was trying to suggest regional etc. differences to our lives in italy on my last thread. 'I was thinking'

The italian way of driving is certainly different and I dont see how an individual can change it. However, my main point was that the English drivers approach to this was instant aggression which could so easier led to him being transformed into a juggernaught (sp) sandwich!!

[Violetta]

Originally Posted by Aretina

:This is how I try to explain Italian driving - The Italians have a reputation for 'different' driving and yes it is. They are fast, but I think much more skilled than drivers from the UK. They have an annoying habit of driving far too close to the back of your car yet I have not seen an accident here in 5 years. They also need to be in front - let them go. The important thing to remember is to be decisive when driving because Italians will 'read' what you are doing. They also have a different approach to 'courtesy', there is nothing personal but they do not acknowledge if you let them in and likewise do not expect any courtesy in return. In fact they always look completely baffled when we have tried to 'thank' them for giving way etc....

I agree with you entirely, Aretina. I love driving here though admit it possibly helps having driven in some more challenging parts of the world before Italy, after which Italy is a doddle. The driving is fast but by and large (and Piaggio drivers aside), I feel Italians drive with a certain degree of intelligence. I agree it's very important to be decisive. I drive Chiusi/Roma regularly on the A1, which is a very fast stretch of road. Yet there's a pattern to the movements, this sounds crazy but it's a bit like dancing. You move to left, you move back to the right maintaining the same speed. You drive up someone's backside, they move over, minutes later someone will drive up yours. Frankly, I love it and find driving in the UK now horrendous. I'm afraid I was caught driving on the hardshoulder of the M25 trying to queue jump the tailback minutes after landing at Heathrow. Not sure what was worse, the fine or the very strict telling off from the policeman. Then driving round the London suburbs and, yes, people really slowing down and virtually coming to a halt as the lights turn amber. And stopping as they approach a roundabout! Not sure I could cope with all that any more.
Alas I have seen accidents here, quite a number, including a very unpleasant head on just outside Pienza last year, though arriving seconds afterwards, I'm still baffled as to how it happened.
By the way, I was once told by a guy at the Europcar desk at Fiumicino that every day he has hire cars being brought back within hours of being rented out. The driver (invariably from the US apparently) gets a few kilometres round the Rome ring road before deciding it's all too much for him!

[juliancoll]

Originally Posted by Violetta

By the way, I was once told by a guy at the Europcar desk at Fiumicino that every day he has hire cars being brought back within hours of being rented out. The driver (invariably from the US apparently) gets a few kilometres round the Rome ring road before deciding it's all too much for him!

Have witnessed exactly that with my own eyes at Ciampino, except the driver was British and in tears through sheer terror at the thought of driving even another minute in Rome. What a wuss!

[deborahandricky]

As already mentioned here. I too no longer bother with the rear view mirror, because you know , that within 2 mins of being on the road you are going to be pulling a trailer.
Roundabouts are a newish concept in our local area, and drivers really, really don't know how to use them, I have seen cars stop in the middle, to allow other drivers on/off, and the idea that folks use there indicators is still a long way off.

I think the Italian driving ethic, is based on the fact, that young teenagers drive mopeds, the constant ducking and weaving in traffic is embedded from an early age, so when they get cars, they do consider themselves bullet ( or worst still, car) proof.

I have seen several accidents on the same stretch of town road, some resulting, sadly in death.
And looking at the sites as you drive past, its hard to work out how they might have happened, must of the cars are so badly damaged , you cant see what the make was.

IMHO, the test here should be harder, and fines a lot higher, maybe then we may see a difference.

[NickZ]

Originally Posted by Violetta

Yet there's a pattern to the movements, this sounds crazy but it's a bit like dancing.

Makes total sense to me. I had basically the same thought a few weeks back when driving in town. I noticed I'd moved left a bit. Why? Down the road was a kid on a bike. So without even thinking you notice things.

Around here at times it seems half the cars have german plates. They fit in fine. If it wasn't for the plates I couldn't tell they weren't locals.

[tinacara]

When it rains all hell breaks loose in the town where I live! There's a mad rush to get home and the two lane road becomes a four lane motorway! Or maybe I should say "river"! (poor drainage!) Drivers are not crazy they're on a mission! Everyone wants to be the king of the road using all the tricks in the bag! The more expensive the car the more things they try to get away with!
They use the lane for turning left to go straight on; love it when I'm first in the lane and actually do want to turn left!
They flash their lights and honk their horn if you're driving too slowy for 'them' - a gesture to say "get out of my way you...."!!
I also remember trying to park... as a good ol' Brit I indicated before stopping and began to park, but the driver of the land rover behind me had already decided it was his spot so he blocked my entrance! he crossed his arms and sat smugly in his vehicle thinking I'd give up - he wouldn't budge! I think that you have to try not to feel intimidated by these drivers! Or just walk around your town! Getting a driving licence is easy here which contributes to the problem of "respectless driving" . The end of my story....? I won! I didn't budge either and he just got bored!

[Aretina]

Hi Tinacara

That reminds me 'Italians dont look for a parking place they look for a place to park'. This practice seems to be alive and well in Calabria.

[Torchiarolan]

Anyone who thinks Italian drivers are skilled should make a trip north and spend a day driving on German autobahns. The difference is amazing.

I like driving in Italy but I have to agree with you on this Allan, however the one thing that really bugs me about driving in Italy, is their habit of pulling from the slow lane at much slower speeds into traffic following in the fast lane at much higher speeds.
I am always warning visitors and friends to be very alert when passing traffic, particularly lorries.
Unfortunately on our last trip back in a Citroen Relay van we were victims of our own advice.
Between Ancona and Bologna, following traffic in the fast lane at about 120kph, we were drawing level with an artic in the slow lane, when it suddenly with no indicator started to pull out as the car ahead of us passed it, as we were rapidly drawing level and were committed, I flashed the lights.
I saw the driver incline his head to view his wing mirror, he hesitated and then still drew out, we braked hard, he kept coming, we steered for the rapidly closing gap between the side of the lorry and the concrete central barriers, just when I started to believe that we might make it as the lorry was now starting to draw past my window, our right hand wing mirror hit the lorry and we impacted hard into the concrete barrier, the van reared up with a terrific bang and jumped sideways just skimming the rear of the lorry as we had lost speed with the impact allowing the lorry to pull a few feet further ahead, after careering about as I brought the van under control, we pulled into the non existant hard shoulder by the steel rails , partially blocking the slow lane and called the police.
We were parked hazards flashing on a right hand bend, our position was causing problems for traffic behind with several other accidents narrowly averted, judging from the sound of brakes etc.
We had to stay in the cab for 20 minutes, as my door was tight against the rail, and for my wife and/or son to exit meant they would open the door nearly into the central white line between the lanes.
Police arrived, very helpful, closed the motorway slow lane, assisted us in getting van backwards to last layby 1/4 mile back. They made an accident report and took lorry number (that hadn't stopped) ...luckily managed to get it when we were cavorting from lane to lane after the impact).
God knows how but there was no body damage, the wheel was buckled and the tyre was in pieces, they inspected the barrier ahead and saw our brake marks and the concrete broken where the wheel had hit the stub on the central reservation.
We changed the wheel, and tested her back and forwards on the layby, then we drove to Cherbourg, because of several hour delay and slower speed only arrived as they were boarding, en-route I rang the garage in ireland as all the dashboard airbag lights were on, the owner told us to keep going but try not to hit a pothole or they might pop because the tensioners were obviously up to the last with the impact.
Italians and motorways ? ... above episode reinforces my belief that the majority are crap drivers but they think they are good.

PS passed another accident involving a lorry on its side on our way back, as well as one of a car buried in the back of one on the fast lane, doubt the car driver escaped as the roof was on the dash.
Never have driven down the length of Italy without seeing at least one accident, whether on way up or down.

[Torchiarolan]

This message was deleted by me, because duplicate posting for some reason only known to my computer