'Ease of doing business' World Bank data

[Beppe]

Originally Posted by liketheroman

It is not all bad news

One of the down sides of an 'ease of doing business' country is that it makes the business environment brutally competitive.

If you choose your area carefully somewere like Italy and have the courage, persistence and organisation to make it happen you kind find yourself in a market with less competition.

I prefer a brutally competitive business environment with solid GDP growth, like the UK, to an overly protective and insular one like Italy that caters mainly for retired foreigners and tourists in search of the quaint " village" experience. I also think there are millions of young italians paid peanuts who feel exactly the same.

[Relaxed]

Originally Posted by Beppe

I prefer a brutally competitive business environment with solid GDP growth, like the UK, to an overly protective and insular one like Italy that caters mainly for retired foreigners and tourists in search of the quaint " village" experience. I also think there are millions of young italians paid peanuts who feel exactly the same.

I am sorry, I fail to recognise your view of the Italian tourist economy - let alone your having apparently never noticed the other sectors.

[numerouno]

Originally Posted by Beppe

On the contrary, Marc, you have every right to be and should certainly be , totally negative about the restrictions imposed by the italian govt and bureaucracy.
I would never be brave enough, like you, to open a business in Italy. UK is no doubt a much easier place to run a business, and certainly so since the Conservative policies of the 70's and 80's.
I hope that many more italians will realise that the only way ahead is to let market forces operate freely . Thatcher has shown us the way and Blair has followed her lead.

But I am convinced that the World Bank's intention is to make the so called Third World countries feel self satisfied with having streamlined business regulations even if not much business is done there....like in the Solomon Islands. Perhaps to apologise for Borat's perceived insult to Kazakhstan!

Its obvious that we both agree on the sheer number of discrepancies on the list.

But I beg to differ on what you've said in this post. Nothing personal ok.

It is a fact that because of the 'Milk snatcher's' and the Tory policies, most of the jobs in the UK are in the 'service industry'.

As I've said on a different thread, they created a 'me, me & only me' culture.

Selling off the utilities was the biggest Tory folly. British Gas used to have one of the best apprentice schemes in the world. Not any more.Do you know how many plumbers we need in the UK today?

The hose-pipe ban in the southeast could have been avoided and has absolutely nothing to do with the 'dry' winters we've had. Some forum members may laugh but someone like Manopello will appreciate this.

The amount of fresh water that flows daily into the North Sea from the reserviors in Northumberland is the equivalent to the daily consumption of the whole of London.

The cost of diverting this flow to the Southeast, and in the process would have revived most of the canal system in the UK, was estimated at around £100,000,000.00 some 15 years ago. Not a huge amount. Hey, but it was deemed commericially unviable.

And why? The answer is in your post above..... its the 'free-market' policies which puts profits for shareholders first.

I'm a keen gardner and when I'm told that I can't use the hose-pipe and they still want me to pay my water rates in full.....need I say more?

And oh yes, 'Blair the Follower'....... he always follows.

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[liketheroman]

Originally Posted by Beppe

I prefer a brutally competitive business environment with solid GDP growth, like the UK, to an overly protective and insular one like Italy that caters mainly for retired foreigners and tourists in search of the quaint " village" experience. I also think there are millions of young italians paid peanuts who feel exactly the same.

Well we are where are with a common interest in Italy so we make the best of it. I do my best to rail against the things I believe to be terribly unjust but other than that you accept it as I have no desire to live in Singapore. The young Italians can vote to change the status quo if they wish but that does not seem to be happening either. They can also vote with their feet, which young Italians have done since time immemorial.

We are tenants here, if the landlord doesnt like the colour of the house, it is up to him to change it.

[Beppe]

Originally Posted by Relaxed

I am sorry, I fail to recognise your view of the Italian tourist economy - let alone your having apparently never noticed the other sectors.

The tourism industry has had a negative impact on many parts of Italy in a number of ways: environmentally, socially and economically.
Why environmentally? because of the pressure that tourism creates on building more awfully garish holiday resorts in more places, like Elba for example or Gargano in Puglia or the Calabrian coast.
Socially because it makes italians rely on the "selling" of their country to foreigners. See how Siena and Firenze have become medieval Dysneylands or Assisi the Wonderland of San Francesco.
We are still the waiters of Europe even if these days we serve meals at our own restaurants instead of at a swiss or french one.
Economically because tourism appears to be the short term solution to long term problems and italian govts have accordingly done nothing to encourage technological innovation and development.
I am sorry, but as an Italian living overseas I am not relaxed about my country's future.

As for the other sectors , yes, there are millions of small to medium businesses struggling to compete but they are all burdened by stupid bureacrats and self serving politicians. I think Italy is overdue for a major shakeup at all levels , unfortunately I do not see any talent on the political horizon.

[liketheroman]

Well Beppe you have nailed your colours to the mast and I can see why you are frustrated. My assumption was that you were a whining expat in Italy, clearly not the case. Perhaps you are one of the 100,000 Italians in London, with your talents helping it prosper.

I think you have it wrong with Firenze though. Yes it is a tourist area but it is also probably industrially the most interesting area in Italy right now.

[numerouno]

Originally Posted by Beppe

The tourism industry has had a negative impact on many parts of Italy in a number of ways: environmentally, socially and economically.
Why environmentally? because of the pressure that tourism creates on building more awfully garish holiday resorts in more places, like Elba for example or Gargano in Puglia or the Calabrian coast.
Socially because it makes italians rely on the "selling" of their country to foreigners. See how Siena and Firenze have become medieval Dysneylands or Assisi the Wonderland of San Francesco.
We are still the waiters of Europe even if these days we serve meals at our own restaurants instead of at a swiss or french one.
Economically because tourism appears to be the short term solution to long term problems and italian govts have accordingly done nothing to encourage technological innovation and development.
I am sorry, but as an Italian living overseas I am not relaxed about my country's future.

As for the other sectors , yes, there are millions of small to medium businesses struggling to compete but they are all burdened by stupid bureacrats and self serving politicians. I think Italy is overdue for a major shakeup at all levels , unfortunately I do not see any talent on the political horizon.

Hi Beppe.

Again I agree with your passions about Italy. We are equally passionate about your country.

We have been travelling to Italy for the last 30 years and we've seen how things have changed in Northern Italy.

We bought our house in Loreto 2 years ago and everybody was telling us this : 'demolire la vecchia casa, perché il suo più economico per costruire una casa nuova'

But you'll be pleased to hear that we the 'stranieri' did not go along with their idea and we waited for nearly 18 months to find the right geometra and builders to do what we wanted.

The whole idea was to renovate the casa vecchia. And thats exaclty what we are doing at the moment. We have tried to use the minumum amount of concrete. We have kept to the old footprint of the house and we've had it built it in brick. Now one could classify the restrictions imposed by the Comune as bureaucratic but we think not.

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[liketheroman]

Originally Posted by numerouno

Now one could classify the restrictions imposed by the Comune as bureaucratic but we think not.

#1

When is regulation just bureaucracy and when is it productive - when it is done for a purpose and the fruits of the purpose exceed the cost and effort of complying.

An Italian example is I suppose the administration of DOC and DOCG wine - the burden is heavy but the output is better wine prices

A UK example is Financial Services are possibly the most regulated in the world, yet the the industry is the biggest and continues to grow - regulation gives confidence

[sueflauto]

I'm not sure your example is actually a good one, although you're right, I think, about the good intentions behind it. Many top makers selling good wines at high prices don't use DOC/DOCG because it enforced certain traditions that weren't always to the benefit of quality - the use of white grapes in Chianti comes to mind, and hence some of the expensive VdT in that area. Also how one of the larger Trebbiano denominations got a DOCG beats me, and is regarded by some as a purely political decision.

I do think wine has got better, and regulation does help, but I think often Italian cussedness and individuality helps too!

[piedmont_phil]

Following the tangent into wine for a moment.....DOC and DOCG were established for all the right reasons, and have more than their fair share of foibles because it is the Italian way. Interestingly the revolution by the so called super tuscans (and in a different way the premium producers in Piedmont) did force the government to change DOC/DOCG and other wine regulations. I predict there will be many further changes in wine laws in the next 5 years as we adapt to another wave of market contraction and EC mandates.