'Ease of doing business' World Bank data

[Marc]

This chart comes from the World Bank.....

Economy Rankings - Doing Business - The World Bank Group

Italy ranks 82 in the world for ease of doing business, just above Kenya and below Panama!

[liketheroman]

What is more shocking is when you get into the detail.

Italy didnt do shockingly badly on starting a business, registering property, getting credit and closing a business.

However they were 141st for enforcing contracts out of 175. Most of Africa beat them here. I had no idea.

[Sally Donaldson]

God help anyone living and dealing with the countries below Italy!!!

[numerouno]

Originally Posted by turtle

God help anyone living and dealing with the countries below Italy!!!

Never mind dealing with the countries below Italy......God help anyone dealing with some of the countries 'above' Italy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A list compiled by the World Bank....this has to be the biggest gag of the 21st Century. The World Bank.....an organisation until recently headed by that Neo-Con, Paul Wolfowitz. Everybody knows why he had to step down.

South Africa comes in at number 29.......India at number 134....oh please.

#1

[Beppe]

Originally Posted by Marc

This chart comes from the World Bank.....

Economy Rankings - Doing Business - The World Bank Group

Italy ranks 82 in the world for ease of doing business, just above Kenya and below Panama!

Hi Marc

I am not here to defend the sometime byzantine ways of the Italian bureaucracy which has a definitively negative impact on business but one just has to question the World Bank classification.

For example:

Columbia is # 72? For what? ease of exporting white powders?
Pakistan is # 74? Is there any time left to do business there after they deal with Al Queda?
Solomon Islands is # 69? is there any business there? Does Wolfowitz have any time to read the papers (after he arranges a new job for his girlfriend) and see what a mess those islands are in?
Kiribati is # 60? What is it? Where is it?
Mongolia is # 45? Yep. Major international trade centre.
Samoa is # 41? See Mongolia.
Namibia is # 42? See Mongolia.
Tonga is # 51? See Mongolia.
Maldives is # 53? See Mongolia.
Belize is # 56? See Mongolia.
Palau is # 62? See Kiribati.
Georgia is # 37? Business may be easy there because soon there will be no-one left. Last time I spoke to a georgian he was looking for a volunteer to switch off the lights as the last citizen to depart.
Fiji is # 31 ?? Has any one checked when the next coup is scheduled to take place?
Kazahkstan is # 63? Better let Borat (aka as comedian Baron Cohen) know.
South Africa is # 29? Is that why thousands of SA citizens emigrate ?

Seriously, what is the point of asking a junior World bank employee to download from the internet the business registration requirements for, say, Kiribati, and reveal to the (no doubt) anxiously waiting people out there that in Kiribati it is soooooo much easier to set up a company.
Just can't wait to get there.

[Marc]

Fair point Beppe! I think 'ease' of doing business doesn't neccesarily equate to opportunity for profit or security of business.

On the other hand, consider.....

A German woman tries to set up in business in Venice as a Gondoliera. She has the necessary training and certification. The Mayor of Venice tries to block her in the court because it is not 'traditional'.

Telecom Italia, a loss-making dinosaur of a business, is approached for takeover by foreign companies eminently qualified to rescue it. The ex-PM and business leaders from all over Italy rally to try to block it, for no other reason that they believe that it should remain in Italian hands. Same thing is about to happen with Alitalia.

My friend opens a cafe and bakery in Rome. A month later, I go in to find the espresso machine covered-up. The licence to sell coffee (!) that they paid for has been repeatedly sold to many businesses and is the subject of a police investigation. Meanwhile, they can sell pastries but not coffee.

New businesses open-up and their signs remain covered in plastic bags for months, because of Comune delays in issuing the permission to display them.

The city of Rome advertises for trainee bus drivers (5 years ago) The advertisement says that one of the conditions is that applicants must be Italian thus, EU citizens need not apply

Imagine I wanted to pitch for business to manage Napoli's refuse disposal problem. How easy would that be?

I don't want to be totally negative about Italian government, but it seems to me that the many small business which thrive here do so because of the persistence and hard work of their owners, not because of the ease of doing business here. A classic case of 'what does not kill me makes me stronger'.

[sueflauto]

No cafes trade internationally, so pointing out that Mongolia (etc.) is not an international trading powerhouse is not really relevant, using one of Marc's examples. Perhaps it _is_ easier to set up a chai house in Pakistan and I suspect they wouldn't a licence to use their kettle!

As to Alitalia, didn't the government say that they _would_ sell it, but then put so many conditions on the sale that no one in their right mind would consider it?

Looking at a marginal tax rate of 76% for all contributions does underline that for many people starting a new business is 'non vale la pena', or unless as much as possible can be 'in nero'.

[liketheroman]

Originally Posted by Beppe

Seriously, what is the point of asking a junior World bank employee to download from the internet the business registration requirements for, say, Kiribati, and reveal to the (no doubt) anxiously waiting people out there that in Kiribati it is soooooo much easier to set up a company.
Just can't wait to get there.

Well the report was just that, 'ease of doing business' and was not about amount of business available, crime, perils or opportunity.

You also need to look behind the aggregate number at the different criteria, then it gets more frightening.

I note Marc's reference to the German gondolier. This one might actually be entirely legal. The integrated provisions of the racial and sexual equality acts have various exceptions and one is for authenticity, so for example it is quite acceptable for an Indian restaurant to employ only waiters of Indian ancestry.

However adverstising bus driver jobs to only Italians is entirely illegal as is the ever present 'age limit' put on job applications. Simply a case of a case of, the more law you create, the less seriously you take the ones you have (take note Mr Brown)

PS I am thinking about an Alitalia bid myself - does anyone have an idea how much they would be give us to take it on?

[Beppe]

Originally Posted by Marc

Fair point Beppe! I think 'ease' of doing business doesn't neccesarily equate to opportunity for profit or security of business.

On the other hand, consider.....

A German woman tries to set up in business in Venice as a Gondoliera. She has the necessary training and certification. The Mayor of Venice tries to block her in the court because it is not 'traditional'.

Telecom Italia, a loss-making dinosaur of a business, is approached for takeover by foreign companies eminently qualified to rescue it. The ex-PM and business leaders from all over Italy rally to try to block it, for no other reason that they believe that it should remain in Italian hands. Same thing is about to happen with Alitalia.

My friend opens a cafe and bakery in Rome. A month later, I go in to find the espresso machine covered-up. The licence to sell coffee (!) that they paid for has been repeatedly sold to many businesses and is the subject of a police investigation. Meanwhile, they can sell pastries but not coffee.

New businesses open-up and their signs remain covered in plastic bags for months, because of Comune delays in issuing the permission to display them.

The city of Rome advertises for trainee bus drivers (5 years ago) The advertisement says that one of the conditions is that applicants must be Italian thus, EU citizens need not apply

Imagine I wanted to pitch for business to manage Napoli's refuse disposal problem. How easy would that be?

I don't want to be totally negative about Italian government, but it seems to me that the many small business which thrive here do so because of the persistence and hard work of their owners, not because of the ease of doing business here. A classic case of 'what does not kill me makes me stronger'.

On the contrary, Marc, you have every right to be and should certainly be , totally negative about the restrictions imposed by the italian govt and bureaucracy.
I would never be brave enough, like you, to open a business in Italy. UK is no doubt a much easier place to run a business, and certainly so since the Conservative policies of the 70's and 80's.
I hope that many more italians will realise that the only way ahead is to let market forces operate freely . Thatcher has shown us the way and Blair has followed her lead.

But I am convinced that the World Bank's intention is to make the so called Third World countries feel self satisfied with having streamlined business regulations even if not much business is done there....like in the Solomon Islands. Perhaps to apologise for Borat's perceived insult to Kazakhstan!

[liketheroman]

It is not all bad news

One of the down sides of an 'ease of doing business' country is that it makes the business environment brutally competitive.

If you choose your area carefully somewere like Italy and have the courage, persistence and organisation to make it happen you kind find yourself in a market with less competition.