Berlusconi's Latest Gaffe

[Gala Placidia]

The thing that worries me the most is the fact that anyone would give him his/her vote..... And they do!

[Sally Donaldson]

There wasn't really an alternative alas. Better the devil you know perhaps. Or even better as was mentioned on the Forum recently, some new visionary.

[gradese]

To my shock and despair, my wife voted for him. But, having worked in the Italian parliament, she knew the alternatives, and they were no better. That's one of the reasons we're going back to the UK.

[Italiargh]

My dad normally thinks the sun shine out of his rear end, yet for this election he chose not to vote anyone. I asked why and he replied, that Berlo is just the best of a very bad bunch and even he wasn't worth a vote any more (berlo's party only lost by 15 votes in my area)

[Charles Phillips]

Originally Posted by Nardini

"It's much better for us to be concerned with infrastructure than homosexuality."

Hmmm, it is easy to deride this comment because it is ascribed to Berlusconi. However, it does not seem to me to be the opinion of a madman. (Prepared for flak from all quarters!)

[Nardini]

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

Hmmm, it is easy to deride this comment because it is ascribed to Berlusconi. However, it does not seem to me to be the opinion of a madman. (Prepared for flak from all quarters!)

And richly deserved it will be as well, Charles...

Of course, the significance in that quote isn't in the words, it is in the situation that he is creating.

With the retirement from office of Frattini, there was a vacant job in the EU which had to be filled. With the only discussion from Italy being the suggestions that either Buttiglione should be once again offered the job for which he had been declined by the EU in 2004, or the rather more extreme Tajani, it was decided to give the job to the French commissioner, Jacques Barrot - who had been doing the job very sucessfully since Frattini resigned.

The job of "Justice & Home Affairs" commissioner includes not only the remit of law and order across the EU, but also human rights and immigration issues. Given the rather extreme political views by the winning political parties in Italy since the election, it was felt that the time was wrong to offer Italy the portfolio as it would only lead to argument and discord amongst rest of the EU member states.

Unless, that is, you believe that all foreigners be thrown back to the country they come from and all homosexuals and followers of other religions be flayed and burned, of course...

[pigro]

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

Hmmm, it is easy to deride this comment because it is ascribed to Berlusconi. However, it does not seem to me to be the opinion of a madman. (Prepared for flak from all quarters!)

The thought occurs that, if modern day Italy did infrastructure even half as well as as renaissance Italy did homosexuality, it may be a moot point. :-(

[Charles Phillips]

Actually, I cannot agree that Italy does infrastructure badly (at least not built public infrastructure). It has a very good high speed rail network with the most affordable prices in Europe, it has a fast road network (most impressive in Sicily, where roads are handled by ANAS the state road company) but pretty first class where the roads are part of Autostrade spa. ENEL is the world leader with much of its technology, Telecom Italia are up there with the best on some highly technical stuff, and Marc mentioned a small Wifi outfit winning a contract to wireless up the whole country. The ports of Civitavecchia, Genova and Palermo are a pleasure to get a ship from (I haven't visited any other ports), and all of the airports I have used have been much more pleasant and convenient than the UK airports I know.

I think Italy could make a case for deserving the infrastructure portfolio!

[Gala Placidia]

Originally Posted by Nardini

.......Given the rather extreme political views by the winning political parties in Italy since the election, it was felt that the time was wrong to offer Italy the portfolio as it would only lead to argument and discord amongst rest of the EU member states.

Unless, that is, you believe that all foreigners be thrown back to the country they come from and all homosexuals and followers of other religions be flayed and burned, of course...

Well, it could be as absurd as appointing the Wolf as bodyguard for Little Red Riding Hood.......

[pigro]

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

Actually, I cannot agree that Italy does infrastructure badly (at least not built public infrastructure).

I was thinking more in terms of the value for money obtained out of public spend on infrastructure; the leakage of project funds into dodgy contractors back pockets; and the propensity for gerry-building due to criminal contractors & corruption. However, on the specifics you quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

It has a very good high speed rail network with the most affordable prices in Europe

In strictly engineering terms I don't think it stacks up to the French/Spanish dedicated high speed rail lines (or the quality of rolling stock), but maybe I'm comparing apples/oranges there. Iagree that the ITalian trains are pretty good and very good value; and you certainly pay for speed/service on those other countries fast routes. Metro systems too (well Rome anyway) I find to be cheap and cheerful but certainly not ground breaking. (suppose thats also a cheap shot, as I guess few cities have the civils problems with doing a dig that are to be found in Roma!)

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

, it has a fast road network (most impressive in Sicily, where roads are handled by ANAS the state road company) but pretty first class where the roads are part of Autostrade spa.

Granted, the Autostrade are pretty good, but you pay for that via the tolls & I wouldn't say the standard road network is particularly wonderful. Prevalence of road haulage (vs. rail) is also a big downside.

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

ENEL is the world leader with much of its technology

I didn't know that - and we are talking about a country that is hugely dependant upon imported energy, still caps supply to 3Kw and where power outages appear to be quite frequent & accepted as normal ... so, where is the world leading stuff? are we talking transmission networks, or maybe renewables?

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

Telecom Italia are up there with the best on some highly technical stuff

Too woolly a statement there, Charles. The fixed line telephony is a shambles in terms of provisioning/cost to the consumer and will remain so whilst it is a state monopoly; TIM do admittedly innovate in terms of some mobile content (TV/video/data) but that ain't infrastructure, its service delivery

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

and Marc mentioned a small Wifi outfit winning a contract to wireless up the whole country.

granted, but that kind of highlights how BADLY Italy does infrastructure when a strictly old-school civils project like deploying a national radio transmission network can be won by a start up with 20 employees when put up against companies like TIM who have already deployed similar technology and already have mast sites covering much of the country. I'm all for etrepeneurism, and I hope that Aria do deliver a best in class solution (at which point I'll happliy concede national wi-max infrastructure as a tick in the box for Italian infrastructure) ... but it's yet to be done, and they will actually be heavily dependant on other infrastructure like power & road access to radio mast sites for successful delivery, so I'd say the jury's out on that one!

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

The ports of Civitavecchia, Genova and Palermo are a pleasure to get a ship from (I haven't visited any other ports), and all of the airports I have used have been much more pleasant and convenient than the UK airports I know.

I can't really comment much on the ports as have only used them on a couple of occasions but I'd agree that they seem very well run & efficient and the hydrofoils are excellent. Airports ... yes, if comparing to the main UK ones (i.e. BAA) I'd have to agree, but again my experience is limited to the few routes that I fly. Ciampino may be cute in terms of size, and yes they are spending some money on upgrading it ... but the infrastructure sucks in terms of stuff like parking. How do the major Italian hubs stack up vs. the best Eurpoean airports like Schipol, CDG etc?

Originally Posted by Charles Phillips

I think Italy could make a case for deserving the infrastructure portfolio!

Hmm. Maybe sally could do us a poll and let the punters decide :-)