News

[juliancoll]

It will still say the same crap tomorrow as it says today D'Uno.

[Torchiarolan]

Looks to me that there will be no "forum" as such, it appears to be like an on-line harvester for information, that IM retains the rights to use/publish/distribute etc etc.
Maybe a switch towards an online magazine with members being the unwitting unpaid contributors of info towards this.... and this switch IMHO was not prompted by any recent spat of rows, and , if you are honest Ronni, it has taken you weeks to set all this up, (never mind the origin and instigation process) and this is what you were "away" for, and it also answers (finally) why no sub-forum was set up.... why set up something that they were going to kill off anyway.
And before any "forum diehards" jumps down my throat screeching "negativity" think first, take the time to read this post again and for once you will realise and see that I am yet again being objective here.
I think those of you who talk about sweetness and light on the forums will find that there is NOT going to be a forum per se.... maybe I'm wrong, but remember this post in the future if I'm not.
Maybe all those grazieing so fast are actually akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.

[ronald]

Absolutely agree with Torch about having to think first - take time to consider. Do you trust ITALY Magazine - do you trust our motives? If you think that we are simply in it to exploit you then please don't join.

Is there a commercial objective for us? Of course there is. We are a business.

The commercial objective is to access the people that are our audience - I would like to think that you can help shape ITALY Magazine (both online and print) and we can help give a voice and a space to all who want to join. We generally make money of advertising and to that end we will probably have some advertising to support the community. What we are determined to do (and what is obvious from the trade advertising part) is that any advertising in the community HAS to be clearly marked - just being honest about what we are doing.

Are we looking for unpaid journalists? Not really - we have tons and tons and tons of material plus we pay several journalists. We actually receive articles daily - a lot of people want to be journalists... I know that many of you don't really look at the home page of italymag.co.uk but does it look that we are in need of new stories?

Then there is another level - ITALY Magazine is a business but Italy is also what almost everyone involved with the magazine is into. I decided to move here - everyone else in the office in Sicily is Italian and excited to be working on the connection between Italy and the world. The owner of the magazine has a home in Lucca which he visits regularly - our weddings magazine editor lives in iIaly. If we did a Spain or France magazine then we would really just be working for works sake. But Italy is just plain different - and like everyone who has already signed up we would love to have an active community just so that we can join in as well!

Now - I think most things that had to be said have been. Most insults have been exchanged. Please do not join if you think that you will be exploited - it would just be plain wrong. As I initially said take this opportunity to move on or to start fresh.

[juliancoll]

Originally Posted by Torchiarolan

Looks to me that there will be no "forum" as such, it appears to be like an on-line harvester for information, that IM retains the rights to use/publish/distribute etc etc.
Maybe a switch towards an online magazine with members being the unwitting unpaid contributors of info towards this.... and this switch IMHO was not prompted by any recent spat of rows, and , if you are honest Ronni, it has taken you weeks to set all this up, (never mind the origin and instigation process) and this is what you were "away" for, and it also answers (finally) why no sub-forum was set up.... why set up something that they were going to kill off anyway.
And before any "forum diehards" jumps down my throat screeching "negativity" think first, take the time to read this post again and for once you will realise and see that I am yet again being objective here.
I think those of you who talk about sweetness and light on the forums will find that there is NOT going to be a forum per se.... maybe I'm wrong, but remember this post in the future if I'm not.
Maybe all those grazieing so fast are actually akin to turkeys voting for Christmas.

If I Grazie your post Torchy - would that make me a clucking Turkey too?

Do Turkeys cluck?

[Torchiarolan]

Originally Posted by juliancoll

If I Grazie your post Torchy - would that make me a clucking Turkey too?

Do Turkeys cluck?

No they Gobble

[Aretina]

Dear Ronald

I have read the terms and conditions of the new Community website which details the users rights and responsibilities but I cannot see anywhere where the responsibilities of the administrators are explained, except where folk can be banned if they step out of line more than once. Yes, this is a free community but it will be a community that not only benefts individual users but the Italymag.as well and as such the users (real live people, living very different lives....), IMHO, need to know what support they will have.

[juliancoll]

But Ron, Torchy does raise some valid points and I and many others would like to know if all this new Piazza stuff that you must have been working very hard on for a long time is also the reason you decided not to open a sub forum.

It's not that I don't trust you or your motives - I've always seen you as a decent bloke - even for all the arguments you and I have had in the past, but surely you are aware of what has happened here in the last week or so and will understand why so many (not just me this time) were "up in arms" about the subforum. If you knew you were doing this and "moving us to Venus" and that is the reason you didn't set a subforum up - then why not let us know and so much could have been avoided?

I'm not saying that this was the reason you didn't set up the subforum - but it would be good to hear it straight from you - one way or the other.

Moving on - I've only had a quick look, but it seems a valid reason for wanting to join the new venture has to be given and then you and your team will decide if our (my) "applications" are accepted - which seems fair enough.

Lets get to the point Ron, cus we both know where I'm heading - lets say for example members like me apply - will the applications be accepted by you and the rest of the team if this really is to be a "fresh start"?

Another question if I may - if you accept membership from people lets say, like me, then will the past really be left behind and will "people like me" be handled in exactly the same fair way as everyone else will be dealt with - without the past tainting views or influencing new judgements not only of you and your team, but also of every other member?

Will AbC be able to restrain themselves from calling JC an elephant so that I dont feel the need to call them a pig in return? I can do it - but only if others really can do it too. I can let the past fall away as if it never happened - but can everyone else and even if they can - will they?

So, lets say you accept membership from "someone like me" and lets say "someone like AbC" calls me an elephant in the new place and I lose my temper and call them a pig return - which one of us would get the ban?

If you take the problems that exist here with you to the new place - will you also take the same solutions? If you do that then nothing will change and if AbC calls me an elephant - then there is nothing more sure than eggs are eggs that I will call AbC a pig in return.

Your answer may be to say to "people like me" don't apply to join and my reply to you would be that you are biased and unfair not to accept my application while accepting the application of "people like AbC".

If you do reject JCs application over AbC's application then you and your team would be condoing the behaviour of AbC and showing that it is acceptable for them to call JC an elephant, but not acceptable for JC to call AbC a pig in return.

How do you propose to deal with problems such as this in the new Piazza?

Final questions from me - and you know why I am asking - because I am sure you have read the relevant threads in the Mods Corner.

Am I correct in assuming (from what I have read so far) that the provision of a PM box is not an automatic facility that anyone will have from the beginning and that the provision of such features will have to be " earnt" by some type of merit system?

What criteria needs to be met in order to be "rewarded" with the priviledge of a PM facility - will it be awarded for, lets say, the number of posts a member produces - or will it be awarded soley on the quality of the posts a member produces?
.
I hope to hear from you on all these points as I feel sure they are relevant to many "members like me" who will want to know exactly what they are signing up for before they finally decide to apply or not.

[Nielo]

New Community

Firstly Thank you Ronald for this update as to what is happening. I, along with others, wish very much you had done this earlier and not promised a sub forum you never intended to provide.

However I am going to try and make this as positive a post as I am able to in the circumstances and I very much hope it is taken in the spirit in which it is intended.

I have been a member of this forum for three years. I have learned a lot in that time and not only about Italy.

When I was very new and did not know how things happened here, I got savaged by an established member, I didn’t report it, I didn’t sneak around in the shadows, I gave it straight back. From that time on my cards were marked here. As it happens I now know this person in the real world and I really like him, he is outspoken too but he is honest.

Anyway I travelled on and watched what went on.

I came to the conclusion that this forum was badly managed – and said so.

I also noticed that the resident police force was biased, partial and out of control, and I said so.

I am outspoken, I loath and despise injustice, especially injustice brought about by prejudice - preconceived ideas and closed minds.

I can look after myself and I’m not the timid victim type so I do understand why at times others have been allowed to abuse me without sanction, I don’t really care.

What I have cared about is watching a really good resource (not the forum but its members) and their goodwill, knowledge and intelligence be squandered by a regime that can neither understand nor control what has been happening.

I am glad that Italy Mag forum, as it is now, will be closing. It has a bad reputation on the internet and I know of many people who have stopped buying the magazine because they don’t like the forum so as a marketing tool it is counter-productive.

Now all that is finished, water under the bridge and there is to be a fresh new start.

I have read carefully the new registration agreement.
I can see that ‘full and accurate profiles’ is a measure to try and stop the people they don’t want from joining in disguise, I appreciate and understand the reasons for this.

So if Satan joins under the name of The Angel Gabriel, and Ronald can see that it is Satan’s IP address, he will stop that registration.

But if Beelzebub joins as Saint Michael with an unrecognised IP address, he will be welcomed on board.

So really the ‘new’ start is just a mass banning of anyone that the present regime does not like/want.

IMHO it will not work. It is merely an extra challenge. The more devious people will still get in. It is not who is a member but how the members are managed that will make the difference. NO regime throughout history has ever succeeded by getting rid of the people they don’t like.

So I think there will still be problems and the governance and policing, which I believe has been a major contributor in all the old problems, will not have changed. The problems will – after a honeymoon period -resurface and unless there is ‘regime change’ everything will be exactly the same.

I shall not bother to join the new forum – I live in Italy now – I have a good support network of friends here and I have other (IMHO better) forums to use. I have no desire to go through all this again –same sh*t different piazza.

I would however offer a positive suggestion.

Put in place a moderator, who does not use the ‘community’ as a member. When there is a dispute and drastic action to be taken, put the offending posts (both action and reaction) to this person without identifying the parties involved. Then let them be judged on their content and not on the personalities who posted.

Apply the rules evenly, across the board, if there are two members who continually cause problems, ban them BOTH. Don’t take sides. All that does is empower the aggression of one party, upset others and allow the dispute to escalate and suck in more members.

Once a decision is made, be scrupulously honest about the reasons. Half truths and lies always surface in the end and serve only to create disrespect.

Anyway I hope that the new ‘community’ is a success and that members continue to offer good and accurate information.

I wish you all well and I am (as others no doubt are too) relieved not to be coming with you.