Third party liability car insurance cover

[Masca]

Hi! I am trying to clarify the situation regarding the cover my current car third party fire & theft insurance provides for third party liability in Europe/Italy. My policy states:

Cover for using the car in Europe
This policy provides the compulsory Third Party Liability insurance required to use this car in the European Union. You do not even need a 'Green Card', your
Certificate of Motor Insurance is enough proof of insurance within the EU. By law as a result of EC and EU directives, we must extend this cover to many other countries. Before travelling outside the EU you are advised to contact us to make sure that you are covered.

Does this mean that I am covered for Third Party liability for up to the full term of the policy (one year), subject to meeting all the other terms of the policy (vehicle roadworthy, etc.)? I have tried to ask my insurers this question, but their answer is that I am only covered for 60 days at my normal policy level (fire & theft) and that I can only take the car out of the UK for over 60 days with their agreement (and subject to paying an additional premium!). I am not concerned about anything other than being covered for third party claims outside the UK, and I think that the above section of my policy confirms that I am covered for this without any time limits. Do you agree?

TIA!

[liketheroman]

This sounds rather like the PO policy that my brother in law has and my sister used to sell for the PO.

My opinion and hers too is that you get sixty days and then you need specific permission which normally involves telling them when you are going and when you are coming back plus a premium. I have to say, it does not sound right for what you have in mind.

[Masca]

liketheroman, thank you for your reply.

This is what I am being told when I call the insurer, but I don't understand why based on the wording on the policy and the fact that it has two distinct sections - one re: their compulsory legal requirement to provide Third Party Liability with no mention of time limits, and the other re: their automatic extension for F&T cover for 60 days. The DVLA website states that all UK insurance policies must provide cover for Third Party Liability in the EU, and does not state a minimum/maximum number of days that cover should be provided for (therefore suggesting to me that it should be unlimited). I have found that some insurers get around the assumption I am making by including a clause that states that the policy holder is no longer deemed to be a resident of the UK if they are out of the UK for over 90 days in total during the term of the insurance which therefore invalidates the policy (e.g.: Churchill I believe), but my policy does not include such a clause.

BTW, well spotted, it is indeed a PO policy!

[liketheroman]

You know I just wonder if that is true, i.e. they do have to provide 3rd party cover for the benefit of other road users of course. I wonder if in that situation they can come to you for any insured loss if you contravened the policy terms.

[Masca]

Originally Posted by liketheroman

You know I just wonder if that is true, i.e. they do have to provide 3rd party cover for the benefit of other road users of course. I wonder if in that situation they can come to you for any insured loss if you contravened the policy terms.

Sorry, I am a bit confused. Can you please elaborate? Are you referring to my comment regarding being out of the UK for 90 days?

Also, one other point regarding this subject - If the third party liability was restricted to a certain number of days per year, would this not have to be included on the certificate given that this is all that is required to prove valid insurance cover in the EU (i.e.: given that a green card is not required)?

[liketheroman]

No I just wondered if they do have to honour their commitments to a third party in Europe at any time.

However if they they said to you 60 days and you go over it and have an accident, they can try and recover their loss from you.

Just a thought

[Relaxed]

You know, I never thought I would find myself saying this - but can see the insurers' point of view!

It comes down to the fundaental difference in UK insurance, in that in the UK (I believe uniquely in Europe) it is the driver who is insured, and not the vehicle. I can lend my Iti reg car to anyone - even a youngster - and it is covered (though the youngster will have a considerable 'excess' imposed if he has an accident).

So - you take your UK reg car abroad and a 20 year old youth to whom you have lent it crashes it. If the UK cover has to be exended into Italy, can the UK insurers impose an owner only driver clause? I very much doubt it.

[Masca]

Originally Posted by liketheroman

No I just wondered if they do have to honour their commitments to a third party in Europe at any time.

However if they they said to you 60 days and you go over it and have an accident, they can try and recover their loss from you.

Just a thought

My point is that, according to my understanding of the policy, the 60 days only relates to an extension of the fire and theft cover. The third party liability section does not impose a time restriction.

Relaxed, my UK insurance does not cover me for lending my car to an un-named 20 year old, so this situation will never arise. If the 20 year old has their own UK insurance policy, this should cover them for third party liability in my car. If they don't, they won't be driving my car! My policy includes the owner/main driver and one named driver (me), and the policy makes no differentiation between cover for the two, except for the extension to cover the main driver for third party liability in any other car with the owner's permission.

Does no one else agree with my thinking regarding this subject? Alternatively, can anyone suggest an official body who could confirm that my understanding regarding the minimum legal requirements UK insurance must cover is wrong?

[alan h]

masca - I think you are on dodgy ground.

You asked your insurer and he told you his interpretation of his policy - i.e 60 days [max] at a time. This is the usual application on overseas motoring [unless you get one of the 'special' policies that are available].

I think you should either accept your insurer's statement, or challenge him on it - not keep trying to find someone whoa agrees with your view

[liketheroman]

I found this which I think clarifies:

[As provided in the Third Motor Insurance Directive 90/232/EEC of 14 May 1990 on the approximation of the laws of the Member States relating to insurance against civil liability in respect of the use of motor vehicles(1) Article 2: all compulsory insurance policies against civil liability arising from the use of vehicles must cover, on the basis of a single premium, the entire territory of the Community. Insurance undertakings are not therefore allowed to exclude any Community territory from their coverage. However, according to the principle of freedom of contracts established in national legislation, a number of insurance undertakings agree in their policies that the contract shall expire after the insured person has stayed for a certain period of time in another Member State. They consider that a change of residence of the insured may require a re-evaluation of the risk involved. It is clear that in this context the insurance undertaking should reimburse the policyholders the excess of premium paid as a consequence of the anticipated termination of the contract.]

So it would seem you are right but, the insurance company is entitled to treat your policy as at an end and reimburse your premiums, which does not help much