Health System

[jandjrothwell]

Hello everyone

We bought a house in Montappone province of Ascoli Piceno last year. We had hoped to live on our savings for a few years while we took a break from the UK rat race.
We went to the local comune to get residency in May this year. The comune insist that to be a resident if you are not working, means you have to join the Italian health system at a cost of 700 Euros each including children.
They would not accept any Private schemes or E111 etc etc
Italian scheme or nothing!!

700 Euros each per year.

As this was not in our budget we have decided to return to UK after 1 year and use the house only for holidays.

How come every comune seems to apply different rules

Does anyone know the true answer

Regards

John

[il cacciatore]

Hello jandjrothwell,
I have read your message and am amazed that your local commune can apply such a rule as it doesn't exist. Right to residency is not anything to do with your contridutions to any health system either here or in England. Under Italian and European law you have the right to health care anyway.
Residency is only stating that you have a place of abode in Italy ie; rental or ownership of a property or apartment.
I would go back to your local "anagrafe" and show your identity, rogito or rental papers, codice fiscale and tell them you want your residency. They can't refuse. If they do go to the local polizia or carabiniere and they will help you get it.
I think you will find that your comune is just typical of many that like to make things difficult for forgeiners to obtain their residency certificate.
With regards to your need to health care in Italy a simple visit to your local "asul" equivalent of the NHS tax office and they will arrange your "tessera" card to obtain health care in Italy.
If you have problems with the above. I would suggest speaking to an italian lawyer and he will be able to obtain those documents for you, but the lawyer shouldn't be necessary.
By the way I have live in Italy for four years we have 3 children that are all on the italian health care system at no cost to us.
Regards,

Marias Organic Babies

[Biagio]

Hi jandjrothwell
Sorry to hear about your situation. Il Cacciatore is right and you are entitled to all the same public health treatments in italy as you are in the UK as stated in EC law. I think someone in your local comune has got their facts wrong and as you say different Comunes tend to apply different rules, usually based on their lack of knowledge. If you are deciding to give up Italy just on this point, I would urge you to persue the channels suggested by Il Cacciatore first. It may also be worth contacting your UK National Health office who may be able to help.

Biagio

[Carole B]

There are reciprocal health agreements between the UK and Italy (I cannot speak for elswhere in the EU).

I had my E111 (now no longer used it seems) and when I wanted to register with ASL (Agenzia Sanità Locale) AFTER I recieved my residency - I needed to obtain an E121 (this was in 2004). But I understand that the UK now issues a plastic Health Card similar to that issued here in Italy that should replace the need for the E121.

The Comune has no jurisdiction over these matters. The Questura may have questions about health insurance provision, but for NON EU people (i.e. American, Canadian etc.). They have to prove that they are financially sound and have sufficient health insurance.

This link is very useful on most - if not all - laws for EU Citizens.
>European Citizens Rights<

[jandjrothwell]

Thanks everyone for the reply

I have tried reasoning with the commune but they say the new procedure as of April 2007 is to join the Health service by visiting the department in Fermo.
Once we have a receipt that we have paid the 700 Euro each. The commune will issue the Residency documents.
The commune were very pleasant but insist they are following their new directive.

We have met many Uk expats non have had to pay this money, but the commune say that it is only new applicants who have to pay.

Has anyone out there got residency since May?

Thanks

John

[adriatica]

http://www.italymag.co.uk/forums/hea...ealthcare.html

this might help a bit...

you are right there have been rule changes and this has led to this new charge

i actually remeber a thread where it was discussed in more detil ...but cannot find it... i think but cannot guarantee from memory that your comune is applying these new rules ... i believe unless you are retired ...ie over the state pension age... you will have to be employed here to actually pay contributions or else as your comune says make lump sum payments... seems suprising if you have to pay for your children though... i would have thought a parent would have had them covered under their own policy...

dont take my word on all this... but changes have been afoot...i guess from your posting they are now underway

Italy Guide: The National Health Service, The public health system in Italy Italy’s national health service . ...did a bit of looking around and found this... now if you take out insurance it seems to me that should cover your whole family...including spouse... but then again this is italy... what happens say if you go to the comune and register yourself as resident with the one health insurance in place...would not this entitle everyone in your family to receive the treatment...

[CMJ Oliver, Solicitor]

I hope that you don't give up on Italy! Which is the Comune that you applied to?

The new changes are the implementation of the EU Directive 2004/38/CE on freedom of movement of persons, and the Italian law no. 30 of 6th February 2007.

SCADPlus: Right of Union citizens and their family members to move and reside freely within the territory of the Member States
Dlgs 30/07

"For periods over three months the right of stay of EU citizens in Italy is recognicsed, with relevant registration at the anagrafe...in the following cases:
a) employed or self-employed in Italy;
b) having sufficient economic resources to not become a burden on the state or social services and has health insurance or other suitable cover;
C) is enrolled at state or private educational institute and has sufficient economic resources to not become a burden on the state or social services and has health insurance or other suitable cover ;
d) is a family member of a person who has the right of residence under the terms of the above paragraphs.

I would suggest (based on knowing people who have obtained their ASL tessera on this basis) one of you could take up part-time employment in Italy, a few hours in a local enoteca...a far cry from working in the rat race...and once your social security contributions are paid you are considered employed. Perhaps you could check on the minimum hours necessary to be considered employed?

Studio Legale Paoletti

[CMJ Oliver, Solicitor]

On further reading of Dlgs 30/07, other suitable cover would seem also to include the new European Health Insurance Card (replacing the E111 which was abolished in 2005). This is known as the "TEAM" card in Italy. This will be valid in Italy only if you apply for it in the UK.

"The EHIC entitles the holder to the same treatment at the same cost as a national of that country. For example, if medical care is provided free of charge in the member state where treatment is required, the claimant will be entitled to free medical care on presentation of the card or an equivalent document."

So you should not need to pay to register at ASL or get a job.

[bosco]

The new regulations are available in full at the following web address: http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/so...20nat%20EN.pdf

This is FCO's posting of the Italian government's translation of their own regs. It's quite complicated - as you'll see it you read then, it's difficult to advise people without knowing their precise circumstances. And of course, the regulations may be being interpreted differently in different places.....

[Giangiacomo]

Originally Posted by jandjrothwell

Thanks everyone for the reply

I have tried reasoning with the commune but they say the new procedure as of April 2007 is to join the Health service by visiting the department in Fermo.
Once we have a receipt that we have paid the 700 Euro each. The commune will issue the Residency documents.
The commune were very pleasant but insist they are following their new directive.

We have met many Uk expats non have had to pay this money, but the commune say that it is only new applicants who have to pay.

Has anyone out there got residency since May?

Thanks

John

We've obtained residency for clients of ours in Penna San Giovanni, not far from Montappone (though in a different province), with Italian private health insurance at a cost of € 125 per year.

I think Montappone is making a mistaken interpretation of the law. In fact on the last page of the document 'bosco' linked to it says:

"All those who have no health insurance cover in an EU State (and are not registered with the NHS) should either produce a private health insurance policy or directly pay for the services".

You should obtain the Italian original and wave it under their noses.

Giangiacomo

www-picenehomes.com