new ICI rules 2008? non-residents?

[ohmygosh]

Hi…I’m looking for advice about paying ICI. We own a small apartment in Abruzzo and live outside Italy (in the UAE now, Turkey by mid-August). For the past 2 years we’ve used a lawyer recommended by our estate agent to pay the ICI. It’s been about 80 Euros for the work, plus another 80 Euros or so for the tax. We’ve always just done it this way because we figure eventually we’ll be living there & be able to take care of it cheaply.

Last week, we got a note from the lawyer’s secretary:
Our office inform you that the rules regardind the obbligation to present the income tax return has changed during the last year; in fact people that lives abroad, and that own a property in Italy has to present whitin june 20- 2008, the income tax return and to pay tax but only if they are more that Euros 10.33.

Then the next day, we got another email:
Regarding our last e-mail we need to say exactly that for Italian tax law, each property has a tax value, and a yearly rent (called: rendita catastale); A property has a yearly rent even if it doesn’t produce any income or used only for holiday . To verify the yearly rent you can read on the notarial deed it’s value or on the land register certificate. As we said on our last e-mail from 2008, but regarding the year 2007, people that doesn’t have Italian citizenship, and have a property in Italy, have to present a tax form were they declare some information regarding the land register and the yearly rent (rendita catastale). Even if the yearly rent of Italian property it’s very moderate and there’s any tax to pay, It’s obligatory to write and present to the tax office a income-tax return.

And the price of the service has tripled (Euros 240) plus the price of the taxes.

So, what I’m trying to figure out is this:
1 – Is there some change/additional work that would require the price to triple? I haven't seen anything on the forums about this.
2 – Any ideas about getting this taken care of in a lower-cost manner? Unfortunately we won’t be in Italy before August (and the taxes are due June 20)?

Thanks much!!

[alma]

I e-mailed my geometra to ask him about this and he didn't know what I was referring to. As he doesn't speak any English and my Italian legal knowledge and vocab leaves a lot to be desired, does anyone know an Italian link I can refer him to? I'm really worrying about what I should pay to who.
pam

[NickZ]

This was discussed in the past. A search should turn up the discussions.

What has happened is that non-residents no longer get the basic tax write off. In the past if your only Italian income was your home you wouldn't have to file taxes. Your "no tax" zone would be higher then this. Now without the write off you need to file the tax form and possible pay some taxes.

Cheapest way? Do it yourself if you are comfortable with Italian. It should only be a few lines on the form. If not there must be somebody to do it. I've posted about a guy that had a booth in the local mall doing taxes for about 30 [maybe 40 Euros] others have mentioned people doing it for even less.

But if your stuck with deal from abroad I'm not sure. Maybe wander over to the Italian embassey and ask kindly for help?

[alma]

Where do you get the form from to start with?

[NickZ]

My town hall has piles of paper forms.

I haven't checked this year but you've been able to download an electronic version of the form from the Agenze Entrate website in the past.

[pigro]

Originally Posted by ohmygosh

Hi…I’m looking for advice about paying ICI. We own a small apartment in Abruzzo and live outside Italy (in the UAE now, Turkey by mid-August). For the past 2 years we’ve used a lawyer recommended by our estate agent to pay the ICI. It’s been about 80 Euros for the work, plus another 80 Euros or so for the tax. We’ve always just done it this way because we figure eventually we’ll be living there & be able to take care of it cheaply.

Last week, we got a note from the lawyer’s secretary:
Our office inform you that the rules regardind the obbligation to present the income tax return has changed during the last year; in fact people that lives abroad, and that own a property in Italy has to present whitin june 20- 2008, the income tax return and to pay tax but only if they are more that Euros 10.33.

Then the next day, we got another email:
Regarding our last e-mail we need to say exactly that for Italian tax law, each property has a tax value, and a yearly rent (called: rendita catastale); A property has a yearly rent even if it doesn’t produce any income or used only for holiday . To verify the yearly rent you can read on the notarial deed it’s value or on the land register certificate. As we said on our last e-mail from 2008, but regarding the year 2007, people that doesn’t have Italian citizenship, and have a property in Italy, have to present a tax form were they declare some information regarding the land register and the yearly rent (rendita catastale). Even if the yearly rent of Italian property it’s very moderate and there’s any tax to pay, It’s obligatory to write and present to the tax office a income-tax return.

And the price of the service has tripled (Euros 240) plus the price of the taxes.

So, what I’m trying to figure out is this:
1 – Is there some change/additional work that would require the price to triple? I haven't seen anything on the forums about this.
2 – Any ideas about getting this taken care of in a lower-cost manner? Unfortunately we won’t be in Italy before August (and the taxes are due June 20)?

Thanks much!!

1 - prviously they were calcualting & payng your ICI, which is very easy. Now, they have to do that but also calculate your tax on the house, then fill out and file an Italian tax return - which is more work (particularly if your house is owned in jount names, in which chase they have to fill out two returns). I suspect they are probably charging you a standard fee for filling out the tax return, regardless of the fact that you have minimal income to declare.

2 - either DIY or threaten it and ask for a smaller fe for the tax return to reflect the minimal work invoved. FYI, a friend of our Geometra who is a commercialista has offered to do 2 tax returns for us at 50€ each (once we explained to him why we wanted to fill one out at all, as he wsn't aware of this himself).

[ohmygosh]

Thanks for the ideas...I'll check into it. And have my husband ask at the Italian embassy!

best,
O.M. Gosh

[rosecottage]

Originally Posted by ohmygosh

Thanks for the ideas...I'll check into it. And have my husband ask at the Italian embassy!

best,
O.M. Gosh

Just wondering if you've made any progress with this? I've had exactly the same two emails through!!!!

[Masca]

Hi. Does anyone know if it is possible to make an IPREF return and payment online? We are not due to go to Italy again until August and so will otherwise miss the July deadline. TIA!

[ohmygosh]

Nope, no luck. Husband got a list of attorneys where he is from Italian Embassy, but after an email & phone call, no offers of assistance. I think it's just too small a deal for them. And we've lost touch w/ a friend who is an attorney & lives where husband is. So, we're doing it the same way we've done before...xferring $$ to the atty in Abruzzo. best!