Permanent Residency

[Nonna]

Could anybody please confirm when the 5 years starts for permanent residency. We moved here from England and our first Permesso di Soggiorno started from 1st March 2004 before the new regulations came into force. However because of the time taken to issue the P.di.S. we weren't able to register at the comune until July 2004. I know each comune has its own rules so something in print off would be helpful as long as they don't chang the rules again.

[Geotherm]

You should be able to see the expiry date of the residency, either on the document issued by the Questura or on your Identity card. Wife has to go to the Anagrafica tomorrow to renew hers, as the 5 years is now up!!!

[Carole B]

Now it 'could' be that I've got it around the wrong way...BUT my dates almost mirror yours i.e. arrival (this time) in early to mid 2004.

Got my PdS which was valid for five years - and (was) due for renewal in June 2009. Next step, armed with that was my 'residency'. That was initially applied for in Milano in July '04 and I actually recieved the residency document in OCTOBER 2004. Then I moved in late December to a rented flat in a town near where I was going to live eventually, and applied for transfer of residency there. They told me it would take some time as Milano worked 'very slowly'. Then in April 2005 I was ready to move to my own home and to yet another comune. The work on the house was OK'd, my application for residency there was accepted and I was told that as soon as Milano sent my documents to my last comune, they would be forwarded straight away to them (1 mile...). That last residency arrived in September '05 and I was 'summoned' to the Ufficio Anagrafe to get everything in order. They did the paperwork on the spot.

Now at this point it was explained to me that if I also wished to have Italian Citizenship then (as a now resident foreigener) that would be granted FIVE YEARS AFTER THE DATE OF ISSUE OF MY PdS!

So - my understanding is that residency does NOT 'expire' or need to be renewed - and that details of 'where' you are resident just need to be changed each time you move.

[elliven]

Aaah! so that's it.

[CMJ Oliver, Solicitor]

Nonna you should be able to claim your right to permanent residence in Italy in March 2009, as your permesso di soggiorno will prove your 5 years "continuous" and "legitimate" stay in the country. Carole B can apply in June 2009, but don't confuse this with Italian citizenship!

Proof of residence at the Anagrafe for 5 years will not be enough if you do not have a valid permesso di soggiorno.

I have translated Article 10) from the relevant Ministero dell'Iinterno Circular of 18th July 2007:


10) Right to permanent residence - Position of EU citizens with expired or non-expired permesso di soggiorno

The right to permanent residence arises following a legitimate and continuous stay of 5 years. Any period preceding the entry into force of the new law (30/2007) shall count towards the period of 5 years. In order to calculate the five years the start date is taken as the date on which the permit of stay became valid (permesso o carta di soggiorno) which is sufficient to show the legitimacy of the stay. Those who are already registered with the Angrafe on the basis that they are already holders, grated on the basis of the previous law applicable to them, of a permesso di soggiorno or carta di soggiorno, which is now expired, who therefore cannot show the requisite period of stay in order to claim the right to permanent residence, must provide documentation to the Anagrafe proving that they now satisfy the current legal requirements for stay in Italy as set out in the new law. In such cases the Comune shall issue a recipt of the request made and will withdraw the expired permesso di soggiorno which shall be returned to the competente Questura.

Where an EU citizen has a permesso di soggiorno which is still valid and applies for the first time for residence at the Anagrafe, only checks as to their actual place of abode should be effected, as the possession of the conditions necessary to show the legitimacy of their stay is already proved by their possession of this permesso di soggiorno. The Comune should withdrwaw the permesso di soggoirno and replace this with the standard certificate of residence as set out in the new law.

Charlotte Oliver