Declaring second home in Italy to Italian tax authorities

[johnsm13]

I think maybe regular poster to this thread Will may know the answer to this -but can anyone guide us on our responsibilities to the Italian tax authorities for our second (holiday) home there?

Our principle residency is still the UK. We've read that even if we don't rent out our house in Italy, we still need to pay a notional amount of tax to the Italian authorities on the assumption that we may.

Is that right? And do we really need to hire a commercialista to do that - is there the equivalent of a local network of Guardia di Finanzia offices we might be able to go to for simple, free advice (we speak Italian OK)?

Many thanks

Mike Johnson

[Susi]

I think you are correct, even if you do not rent out your property it has a tax value based on the assumption that you do and you have to register for tax. I seem to remember we had to do that the year after we bought, but as we are not renting it out there wasn't anything to pay. the company that organises our ICI dealt with the paperwork at the same time they did the ici (it saved us money)
Hope that helps

Susi

[Marc]

Mike, I think you might be confusing the rent issue with ICI. ICI (the Italian equivalent of Council tax) is based on the notional rental value of your house, were you to use it as a commercial asset, rather than live in it. This, in turn, is based on a percentage of the Catastale value (the value last declared to the land registry) Everyone has to pay ICI, not just, holiday home owners.

An accountant will be able to calculate your ICI for you and pay it, or you can find what percentage of the catastale value is due in your area and then pay it yourself. Why they don't simply bill you twice a year for the amount due is one of life's mysteries.

Regarding declaring your Italian home as your second home, well you should really, but many people don't. (after all, the reasoning goes, it is your only home in Italy)

[Flyingveepixie]

We haven't declared our house as a second home as we didn't know there was any requirement to do so. We don't rent it out so there is no extra income issue.

One thing that is bothering me is the council tax issue. As far as I know we are not registered for council tax and we don't know how to go about doing it so can anyone offer any suggestions please. Also will there be any financial penalties for late registration ? (we bought the house at the end of september last year)

[Wol]

ICI or council tax seems to be a funny thing. Our house does not have a cadastral value against it (I think this is because it is still classed as rural) and so we had to guess how much ICI to pay.

There are no bills, everyone just knows to pay it at the right time. Apparently you pay a fine if you don't pay it but that this is very small (so we are told).

[David]

Here are some Q&A'a that we put together on ICI taxes that may clarify some aspects....

What is ICI Tax?
ICI pronounced Ichy stands for Imposta Comunale sugli Immobili and is the local taxed levied and spent by the Municipality or Comune in which the property is located.

How do I calculate ICI to be paid for my second home?
ICI for second homes is generally calculated applying a 0.7% ICI tax on notional rental value assigned to the property and multiplying by 105.
Example:
If the house’s notional rental value is 150 euro, then the ICI payable is 150x105x7/1000 = 110.25 euro

When do I pay ICI?
ICI is payable in two 50% instalments due December 20th and June 30th. You can get the payment forms with bank details from you local Comune. Payment is generally made through your bank or post office. Keep the stub for proof of payment.

Does each house co-owner have to pay ICI separately?
Yes. It is not possible for one owner (say husband) to cover 100% of ICI due. Two payments are necessary (from both husband and wife)

Can I pay in one instalment?
Yes. In fact this is much more convenient for non-residents and is payable on June 30th.

Does the Comune or tax authorities send me an ICI bill?
No. The system requires the tax payer to proactively pay their ICI taxes. Missed payments will automatically incur fines of up to 200% of the amount due.

If I buy a house during the year, how much ICI tax do I have to pay?
If the deed of sale goes through say September 17th, then you are liable for October, November and December or 3/12 of the yearly ICI due. The deed of sale on of before the 15th of the month means you have to add that month to the ICI due. In our example, September is excluded.


David
www.ourtoscana.com

[Flyingveepixie]

If this ICI thing is payable in december and june, is that a rigid requirement? What I mean is if you are not in italy at the time the payment becomes due can you pay it at some other time without a big hassle. At the moment it's only possible for me to be in Italy a couple of times a year as and when finances allow and extremely unlikely that I will be there in June. Does that mean I'll have any kind of problem if I go to the commune the next time I am there to ask for the form (probably around august or september)

I tried to do some research on this last night but most of the sites I found were in italian which I am not yet very profficient with. I did find one interesting site in English however and according to what it said there I will almost certainly be obliged to submit an italian tax return as well, and possibly may even have to pay some form of income tax.

I hope someone will come along here soon and tell me I am mistaken about this !!

If anyone wants to check this out for themselves the link is www.delgiudice.clara.co.uk/guideframe2.htm

[Marc]

Further to David's useful formula, and after doing a bit of research on our own comune, I found that the issue is complicated further by a lower rate (.55% as opposed to .7%) and a lump-sum deduction (€129.11) for 'first home' owners.

(I used to think that our accountant was making out like a bandit by charging us €66 to calculate and pay our ICI, which amounts to €44, but now I'm not so sure!)

There's some more information, in English, over at:
http://www.fiscooggi.it/reader/?MIva...iornale=102072

[Susi]

It is rigid, but as a non resident you can pay in June. There are lots of people who will do this for you (for a fee) it is possible to work out the amount and produce the bill yourself but unless you know what your doing it is a lot of work.
I think in a previous post Anne gave instructions on how to do it.

Susi

[cristina]

Marc, your accountant is making out like a bandit! You can do the whole thing online in a minute. All you need to know is the catastale value. Check out http://www.dossier.net/guida/calcola.htm