Filling in Italian Self-Assessment Tax Return Nothing to Declare !

[Relaxed]

You are probably correct about recent chages Nick - this isn't my field at all! All I know is that I pay (on other people's accounts, second homers all) a sum of IRPEF calculated by the commercialista, and I have done this for the last many years: I was told 'it would go up' so probably it is a threshold thing.

To JackieC - to the best of my knowledge (unless your house is very small ... but maybe now even if your house is very small) you do have to fill in the form (which is many pages long). You might be able to get a PDF to print off from the Agenzia delle Entrate (home) site - but I don't even know what date should be on the top of it - 2006 or 2007!

Would be nice if someone like CJ or MM came along with a reply.

[bosco]

Having done a bit of searching, there was a thread a couple of years ago in which two people who sounded authoritative (one was Notaio) said that if your Catastal Value was under 3000 euro there was no tax to pay and also no legal obligation to fill in a form. And 3000 euro means quite a posh house!

Of course, these things can change.....?

[gardahomes]

Originally Posted by jackie C

Soooooooo- and if you can speak very slowly and clearly I would appreciate it-do non resident owners of second homes in Italy have to submit tax returns and if so where do they get them from.

Remember "SLOWLY AND CLEARLY"

cheers

jackie

Yes, you do have to submit a tax return if you are non-resident, even if you have no income arising in Italy and even if you are not letting your property.

There is something to declare, it's a tiny (probably) figure based on a "notional" rental income.

The reason you now have to do this, whereas you didn't before, is that the "no-tax area" for non-residents has been removed.

There are accountants who will do this for you for about 120 euros, which is well worth it in my opinion. PM me for details on who can help you do this.

Hope this was clear enough!

[NickZ]

Won't it just be one line that needs to be filled in on the form?

[Relaxed]

Originally Posted by NickZ

Won't it just be one line that needs to be filled in on the form?

I am sure you are right, it is simply a matter of determining which line!

If you want to take a look at the (draft) 2007 tax return forms, and their accompanying instructions (the instructions for Fascicolo 1 for a persona fisica run to 111 pages) here is a link.

I leave it to a commercialista to get it wrong for me.....

Le dichiarazioni del 2007: tutti i modelli e le istruzioni - Il Sole 24 ORE

[liketheroman]

Putting my rabid treaty adherence hat on, I wonder if this applies to non residents or anyone with a second home they do not let. If it is the former I would be interested to pursue the treaty issue (there are armies of people in Brussels you can bother about this type of thing)

[red tulip]

does anyone know how likely it is you will be found out and what the consequences are if you do not file the tax return and have no income in italy?

[adriatica]

tulip

the revenue people here are slow but sure... so eventually things will click

this is more likely now since the new government arrived and controls have been made more tight

the eventual costs are different to the sort of standard fines they hand out here on late payments...because it will not i think be a fixed fine... and the eventual costs of defending yourself or employing an accountant to sort it all out will it seems to me at least be a lot higher...

relaxed offers the best choice in my opinion...give it all over to an accountant/bookeeper her... my choice for simple things like this would be a bookeeper..

i saw a program the other day where they are now trawling the net looking for anything to do with italy in the house/sale rental type area....and using that to start off looking into things... using computers to flag up sites... it just takes them time... but they seem to get there eventually

[Michael J Murphy ACA]

Originally Posted by jackie C

Soooooooo- and if you can speak very slowly and clearly I would appreciate it-do non resident owners of second homes in Italy have to submit tax returns and if so where do they get them from.

Remember "SLOWLY AND CLEARLY"

cheers

jackie

Non residents with second homes in Italy will, following the recent budget amendments, almost certainly have to pay Italian income taxes on the notional cadastral income of their Italian home (assuming it is at their or their families disposal).

Before this year, 2007, the "no tax area" (personal allowance) would have covered any liability so no taxes would have gone unpaid. That said it was still an obligation to file a tax return and many people are now catching up by making a 2005 return in light of the future obligations.

From this year, 2007, the "no tax area" is no longer available, and in fact it was abolsihed specifically for non residents during 2006 (but still effective for 2006).

So if you have a second home in Italy you need to establish what the cadastral income of the property amounts to and increase this by one third (as the home is likley not your principle abode). Look at your ICI records because the cadastral income is used here also.

This cadastral income will be taxed a 23% (the lowest income tax rate). There will be no relief against UK taxes for UK tax residents because there is no UK tax for this income and therefore nothing to offset a credit against.

Each owner will need to do a return so split the cadastral income (plus 1/3) in half.

Note the cadastral incomes are being uplifted at the moment so expect to pay something higher than you might calculate right now.

Hope that is clear enough.

For Italian residents who are paying Italian taxes (or those planning to become so) there are some pretty impressive eco friendly tax credits available where you insulate roofs, or buy double glazing or install solar panels or effiecient heating systems.

If you are restoring an old house have a word with the geometra about the exact technical requirements, but as I say, it looks very attractive with 55% of the cost allowed in 1/3 chunks, against the next three tax years.

[liketheroman]

MM - thanks for your explanation

I just wondered (I would assume yes) if it applied to an Italian resident who had a second home in Italy